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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, May 14, 2008.
How were people saved in the old testament? Even before Moses, like Adam and stuff?
People were not saved in the OT in the same sense that we are today. They were under the Law and had to bring offerings on behalf of their sins.
The same way we are, based on the coming of the messiah, who died for all sin, past, present, and future.
Ro:4:3: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
What did Abraham believe, Gods promise of a coming seed, who would make Abraham the father of many nations. That seed being Jesus of Nazareth.
Adam also believed this same promise. As it was spoken to him, in the Garden of Eden.
God requires two things.
1. Sin must be atoned for.
In the OT, God accepted the blood of animals offered up by the priest to atone for sin.
But without faith, the atonement was of no value.
Under the new covenant, Jesus has offered His own blood to atone for sin, but without faith, it will not be applied to you and you will die in your sins, just as in the OT.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
HP: If God accepted the blood of the animals to atone for sin, why did they have to be offered up every year?
From the man that had to know, this was how it was done in the OT.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
Hbr 9:23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hbr 9:24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
Hbr 9:25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
Hbr 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
God accepted these "copies" until the Messiah came and offered the perfect sacrifice, once for all.
The Mosaic Covenant was a social contract (civil law) for living in Israel. It had nothing to do with one's status in the next life.
More to the point, why didn't St Paul know that there were several distinct covenants in the OT? He writes as if everything is mushed together in one contract.
A PSALM OF DAVID, MASCHIL.
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer.
5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.
6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
7 Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance.
8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.
11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.
Sound familiar? It does to me. It sounds like Grace was granted after repentance.
After the person repented then God accepted the sacrifice.
So, what was the purpose of the sacrifice? If all God wanted was a contrite heart, the sacrifice was in vain.
Hbr 9:22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
This gets a little complicated, to deal with. But before the law there was no sin imputed, because the law had not been given to reveal it. But none the less death by sin reigned, from Adam to Moses.
All the old testament saints were counted righteous by faith, from Adam to Moses. The Law, and sacrificial system had not been given, so atonement for sin was counted on that which was to come, for those who by faith believed god.
Ro:4:16: Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Ro:4:17: (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
The law, and sacrificial system were a shadow of things to come. This was supposed to reveal Christ to the jews. But it did not fail, they did. Their faith was all tied up in their laws, and sacrificial system, and by this they missed the mark.
If you will notice all the offerings made before the Covenant of Law! were not sin offerings, but offerings of thanks.
HP: Truer words were never spoken. :thumbs:
The shedding of blood pointed to Calvary. After Calvary, baptism shows the death, burial and resurrection so there is no more blood sacrifice. Like baptism it was an act of obedience after repentance. Baptism is required obedience but does not save nor did the shedding of animal blood which was also required obedience.
That's what I said. The OT sacrifice was a copy of better things to come, the sacrifice of Christ.
I'm sorry Amy, I did not finish my thought before I had clicked on submit and had to edit. Please reread my previous edited post.
What a great post!!!
The sacrifice that paid for their sins is the same sacrifice that paid for our sins, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. All other sacrifices were pictures or copies of that.
Don’t fall into the time trap! What I mean is, time is a human constraint God is not bound by. We look at past and present and things to come, God sees it all. When you accepted Christ all your sins were paid for, even those you had not committed yet. When Christ died he paid for all our sins, those of the OT believers and those of believers not yet born. All of the OT pictures and points to that.
They were saved by faith just as we are.
Amen, and amen!
I agree with this as much as anything I've seen posted on the BB. On this topic.