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How would you respond to the following atheist objection.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by quantumfaith, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Think helpful to realise there are really few of those who would say that there is NO God, but that we have to share with them just why Christianity is the ONLY way to that God...

    It pretty much starts/finishes on jesus, get Him across to them, and its pretty much the end game in sight!
     
  2. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Read Pascal's Penses and you will see that "argument" of theism developed.
     
  3. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    That is a very interesting thought, the "difference" between "eternal" and "infinite.
     
  4. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Your story is helpful. What was the evidence that convinced you that God existed?
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    AIC,

    Now if you gave the same answer concerning election and predestination we would be getting somewhere. it would go like this-

    Hello AIC...do you believe God has elected many unto salvation in Christ,and Did He come to die a covenant death on their behalf???
    answer-
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are quite mistaken here, you do none of these things.You are offering mysticism and 5 fold heretical ideas. Turn off TBN.
     
  7. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    "You are quite mistaken here, you do none of these things.You are offering mysticism and 5 fold heretical ideas. Turn off TBN."

    Thank you for your opinion. God bless.
     
  8. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    God directly speaking into my life in a way that only He could. That was the first actual "evidence" that I found that God was actually real instead of just a belief held by some. That He could arrange circumstances and allow those circumstances to be identified as His actions offered the proof I needed to investigate further.

    My salvific experience started with this experience, then was made sure by the actual reading of the gospel.

    Note that evidence of God's existence, and my belief that HE WAS in no way "saved me." That happened later when I learned of the gospel. But my experience made the gospel allowable. Before I knew that God actually existed, the gospel was just another well-crafted fairy tale or myth akin to all the others held by persons around the globe.

    How did God "speak into my life?" Through random acts that would appear to be coincidence, but in retrospect were absoultely not. Imagine a random spin of a radio tuner and landing precisely on a station that was at that moment broadcasting a program that was dealing with a question I had on my mind at that moment (but could find no where else on the radio) concerning an issue with naturalistic evolution. Then, imagine about 2 weeks later -- right at about the time when I was grieving the anniversary of the death of my newborn son -- another spin of the radio tuner and landing precisely on a station that was airing a broadcast of James Dobson speaking about the pain of loosing a child and God's remedy for that pain.

    The first incident could have been pure coincidence (but I now hyphenate co-incidence, as it was God working to move me to an action) but the second was decidedly planned into my life at that moment. I heard the words of reconciliation that I had longed to hear when our son died, but which no one (and I mean NO ONE) seemed to have during the episode, and that includes the minister of what was called a "church" where we were married and attended.

    As a side note, after years of observation of that "church" including subsequent interaction with all of its ministers, and many of its laypersons, I have come to the conclusion that there were/are only 2 saved individuals in attendance, and that there has been only one saved pastor (I call the saved one pastor instead of the more common term "minister" used in that church because he gave evidence that he was saved and had a relationship with Christ of a biblical nature) and the congregation sent the saved pastor packing as soon as they could. They could not stand his preaching the actual gospel to them.

    My interaction with the radio teachers and preachers expanded after the second incident, and after many months I finally prayed along with one of the individuals at the end of his broadcast to "stop warring against Christ." That was the point where I was born again, but only the first step on the journey.

    At that time, out of pure curiosity, I picked up a Bible that was on sale at K-mart (an RSV). Horrible translation, but in it, as I read the New Testament, especially John, I came to know the true nature of the Savior and I bowed before Him as the Rightful Lord of my life. Two years later I made an effort to unite with a local congregation and God has not stopped moving in my (and now, "our") life ever since.

    He has demonstrated His super-natural ability to call, move, provide, uplift, discipline, and equip this sinner, now redeemed, into a man who by His grace can serve in some capacity in Kingdom work. The most recent call and move is taking us out of Kentucky and planting us back in Wisconsin, provided a secure job, and called me to become the next pastor of a church in Sheboygan. Since the call to the church, He has also arranged to provide a home and the funds for the down payment and first month's rent, none of which we were able to provide on our own.

    The house is interesting... I was looking for potential rental properties in the area that would work well as a point between my work in North Milwaukee and Sheboygan where the church is located. There is about 55 miles between those two points, and though there are several smallish cities in that area, it seemed like hardly any rental homes suitable for a pastor who also wished to have people over often in Bible study and church planting efforts in another community. I looked and called a lot of potential owners, but nothing was available in our price range.

    I called one individual who had a "better than we might expect" home for rent in just about a perfect location, small village off the main freeway that led to work and church. Nice sized home with large living room and enough area for guests. It had been leased that day. So the search continued. Two weeks later, the landlord called me and said that "something happened" and the other renter decided to go elsewhere, even though the down payment had been made. She said that she was surprised that she still had my number, and that she could not find ANY of the other numbers of persons who had called about the home. :laugh: We said that we would drive up and inspect the home Saturday. Turns out that she and her husband, as well as her parents who showed us the home, are all belivers. We expect to get our acceptance papers for the lease today...

    But, we also had a problem with funding, as the home came available a couple months before we were planning on being ready. Without any prompting, I took a call from the church clerk in the Sheboygan church and he said that while the church was praying for us they thought that perhaps we might need help getting into the house, and would this much money help? Of course, it was the exact amount that we needed...

    God showed up again!

    To be clear, I had no designs on Sheboygan, and was leaning to another area for a church start instead. I had never even been to that city before. It was not on my radar, but God has moved us there, and so there we inherit a congregation that is crying for a leader who can show them how to grow, both in numbers and in spirit, and also who greatly desire to be used of God to plant new churches.

    I'm at the point in my walk where I no longer have any shadow of doubt about God and God fulfilling His sovereign plans. I have seen, time after time, a move of God that was not orchestrated on my end. He calls, He moves, He provides, He equips, and He edifies! I just get the distinct pleasure of saying "Yes, Lord!" quite often as I bow in worship. :saint:

    Now, God has a "home boy" from Wisconsin, who understands the culture, the people, their lost state, the "inoculation" that so many live with (a little bit of religion so that they never catch "the real thing" -- Christ with us), and also the atheistic naturalistic bent that SO many have in this area. That I might mimic the Apostle Paul and go about finding those people whom God has called out to be His own and unite them into local worshipping congregations, please Lord, let it be so!
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Just curious as to which pentacostal theology as a baptist that you would be holding to!

    I am one also, but hold to a Dr wayne Grudem view on it...

    Are you one who hoklds to a "classic" view on the HS and Gifts, such as a second act of Grace"baptism in HG?" Must speak in tongues to evidence that?

    Holding to 5 fold ministries, modern day Apostles/prophets etc?
     
  10. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Just curious as to which pentacostal theology as a baptist that you would be holding to!

    "I am one also, but hold to a Dr wayne Grudem view on it...

    Are you one who hoklds to a "classic" view on the HS and Gifts, such as a second act of Grace"baptism in HG?" Must speak in tongues to evidence that?

    Holding to 5 fold ministries, modern day Apostles/prophets etc?"


    I just read the bible to know Him. Then I go to my prayer closet and have conversation with Him and He gives revelation and explains scripture to me. Then from what He has put in my heart, I try to live, faith to faith, grace to grace. My experiences with Him doing miracles are awesome, but I'll convince few on a computer lol. I dare to believe!
     
  11. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    glfredrick, your post #68 was a blessing to me.

    I, too, have seen God open doors, close doors, cut me off at the pass and arrange circumstances that revealed His will to me and for me.

    I think you are like me, in that once you've seen God work, then you can see it everywhere. A few years ago, I developed a message that reflected on God's involvement in my life all the way back to the day I was born. Even when I didn't know it, nor did I really want it, He was there.

    Your story also confirms that even a hardened atheist must listen when God goes after him.
     
  12. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    So, you do this apart from any local congregation?
     
  13. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    Thanks... I've been blessed and through no effort of any consideration on my own.

    And, yes, when God speaks even atheists listen. (God is more powerful than E.F. Hutton!)
     
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    ALl who are saved by the Grace of God though 'dare to believe!"

    Do you hold to say what the Assemblies of God for example hold on the works of the Holy Spirit among Christians today?
     
  15. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Wherever I am, so is He.
     
  16. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    I don't involve myself with what other churches are doing. I try to keep my eyes on Him.
     
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Do you even had any Bible passages to support what you are holding to here?
     
  18. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    Nice try, but that was not my question.

    Now, because of your evasive and indirect answer I have come to the conclusion that you have something to hide and that you are perhaps living in sin by excluding yourself from a local body of believers (c.f., Hebrews 10:25 and others).
     
  19. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Yes but it might take another thread lol.
     
  20. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Well I thank you for the quick and presumptive judgement. Actually I was not being evasive, I was answering another thread. Yes I'm in a body of Baptists. Some are amazed by what we see God doing, others ignore it, some even claim it's the devil and are praying for those of us that praise God for His miracles. It is done in the church, at church functions, outside the church, at gas stations and in the market place. Good enough?
     
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