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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Living_stone, Apr 20, 2006.

  1. Living_stone

    Living_stone
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    I'm an Evangelical Christian, sort of a non-denomenationalist I guess. I don't think that Christainity was ever meant to be split into factions. I'm new to this board, but I look forward to making some good friends and having some good discussions.

    God Bless!
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    How can there not be factions? Suggest a mechanism short of Jesus returning.
     
  3. mman

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    Simple, ignore all the creeds, confessions, synods, councils, etc. and return to the bible, since it is all sufficient (II Tim 3:16-17, II Pet 1:3).

    Do bible things in bible ways, call bible things by bible names, speak where the bible speaks and remain silent where the bible is silent, and have a thus saith the Lord, an approved example, or a necessary inference for the things that we do.

    There will alway be division among religious folks because some people don't want the truth. Paul said, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." - II Tim 4:2-3

    However, there should never be division among the church. They are to be of the same mind and judgment, all speaking the same things, without division (I Cor 1:10).
     
  4. Living_stone

    Living_stone
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    What I know is:

    Source

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim 3:16-17)

    "His divine power has bestowed on us everything that makes for life and devotion, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and power." (2 Peter 1:3)

    What about the role of the Church?

    "But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth." (1 Tim 3:15)

    "And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ, so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming." (Eph 4:11-14)

    Where does the Church fit in? To whom do we appeal if we cannot agree on what a scripture verse means? What if we both believe earnestly we're being led by the spirit...

    Those questions bother me...

    [ April 20, 2006, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Living_stone ]
     
  5. SpiritualMadMan

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    One of the biggest releases I have had the past few years has been through an interesting application of:

    1 Corinthians 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

    Just because we have differences does not mean we are not of the Same Lord...

    Just because I am more comfortable with a CCM style worship doesn't mean that my "High Church" friends can't Worship God through the hymns...

    (I used to feel that way and was rebuked for it, rather sharply.)

    We're still human and we are bound to have differences in what we can relax/rest in Jesus, doing...

    God has granted us a marvelous (and somewhat scary) diversity of expression in worship.

    Jesus said:
    John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    A lot of people stop at the Cross where Jesus was lifted up...

    But, I strongly believe that a church must lift Jesus up above all else...

    1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

    Hey, if you want to worship with a Beannie Cap... Do so... I may think you're strange...

    But, if you Love jesus and portray him as crucified and raised bodily... You're my brother whether *I* like it or not...

    Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.

    Mike Sr.
     
  6. Living_stone

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    But different administrations doesn't mean different teachings...

    Either Baptism is regenerative or it's not. Either infants can be baptized or they can't. Either the lord's supper is his flesh or it's not. It's not just worship style...

    What if I deny his humanity or divinity?
     
  7. SpiritualMadMan

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    Some days it just doesn't pay to get up in the morning...

    Why does man have to make everything so confounding complicated....

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    The Gospel is simple people aren't

    Mike Sr.
     
  8. Living_stone

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    Technical Fallacy Statement. This isn't an all encompassing statment. This is being written to people who were already Christians and who were facing persecution.

    Confessing with the lips most certainly isn't all that's necessary!

    "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter, but only he that does the will of my father."

    I suppose because someone else got it wrong and needed a deeper explanation...
     
  9. SpiritualMadMan

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    Have you really dug into Romans 10:9-10?

    Confessing with the Mouth the Lord Jesus...

    What does "Lord" mean?

    What does "Jesus" mean?

    What does Believing that God Raised Him from the dead mean?

    You see... Paul really does give the whole (basic) Salvation Package in two verses...

    Was the thief next to Jesus saved?

    Maybe he only made it as far as paradise?

    We know he made it that far because Jesus promised it to him after his rather bland and theologically incorrect confession from the Cross...

    He acknowledged Jesus was without sin...

    And, asked Jesus to remember him...

    Remember that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be Saved...

    Maybe he didn't actually 'get saved' until he heard Jesus preach in Paradise...

    But, at least his faulty confession got him to a place where he could hear Jesus...

    Yes, if time and discipleship allow there is more that can be taught and accomplished in a new disciples life...

    But, getting saved is oh so simple and easy...

    Mike Sr.
     
  10. epistemaniac

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    Living Stone.... tell me honestly now... are you a Roman Catholic? You sure sound like one... [​IMG] Your info... the interpretation attached to all those verses, is all from a Roman Catholic individual...

    btw, if you deny (not saying that you do)Christ's divinity or His humanity you are a heretic, an anti-Christ...

    1Jo 4:1-3 esv Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    (2) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
    (3) and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

    alonmg with unity we know also that in a certain sense, Jesus will bring division....
    Luk 12:51-53 esv Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.
    (52) For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three.
    (53) They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.

    blessings,
    Ken
     
  11. Matt Black

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    Living Stone, all these questions trouble me as well; I can only say that I have come to the conclusion that the Tradition of the whole Church (authority therein being vested in the Episcopate) is sufficient to provide the correct interpretation of Scripture.
     
  12. DesiderioDomini

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    Forgive me, I missed the part of this verse which says they Confessed AND Believed.

    I hear a confession, a poor one at that, but no evidence of belief.

    Perhaps this verse means just what it says, not everyone who speaks the word "Lord" is going to be saved.
     
  13. SpiritualMadMan

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    Momentary divergence...

    These people also did mighty works in Jesus Name...

    I don't want to even try to get into all the possible implications of this...

    But, it would appear that, at least for Pentecostals :D , the Armenian view might fit...

    That these people started out as believers and were compromised and rebelled from Grace...

    A Calvinist wouldn't be subject to such stuff because most are cessesionist anyway and wouldn't be doing "Power Works" of a sort that would tempt them beyond their station...

    Another possibility is they were Counterfeit Works... These are seen in places of high demonic activity... But, I've never heard of any being done Counterfeited in Jesus Name...

    Usually the psychic healer takes all the credit...

    I do _not_ believe that the Normal Christian is subject to this verse...

    I strongly feel that Jesus was talking about those that practice deceit...

    But, that is probably best left to another thread?

    Mike Sr.
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Ok - so you say that we should return to the Bible and forget any doctrinal statement issued by our specific denomination/local-church etc.

    Since everyone already claims to do that - how about an even more objective approach. Take the Bible and apply an objective "standard" like Exegesis instead of everyone "reading into it" whatever his "pope" has told him to think.

    In other words - what if we "become well trained" in exegesis and then WATCH as the various groups that do that (that are actually able to do it) start to move toward the center.

    Those who "argue against sola scriptura" on this board have missed the boat ENTIRELY. Instead of NOBODY having a "pope" but the RCC - what happens is that EACH denomination forms its own "pope" to some extent in the form of doctrinal statements and historic leadership that they seldom move beyond.

    Granted the newer "popes" are not stained and tainted by the deeds of the dark ages - so they are an obvious and welcomed "improvement" but still the human tendancy is seen in all - the tendancy to hold the Bible "at a distance" and cling to "group think" instead of exegesis.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. SpiritualMadMan

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    Bob,

    I think both methodologies are in order...

    We learn our basic understanding of how to do an Exegesis from our local or denominational Statement of Faith or Doctrinal Statement...

    This can not be helped in most cases because if we were raised in church the effect can not be avoided as a child...

    But, as we Grow in Grace and Truth we have to take responsibility for our Faith...

    Phillipians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    At which point we and to our Discipleship...

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    Many churches are not secure enough in their doctrinal stances to actively encourage such self study...

    But, the Bereans did so and got one of Pauls very few "Unabashed Praises"... They were "More Noble"...

    I want to be considered Noble by my Lord and those He has placed around me...

    Again I say both methodologies are *required*...

    2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

    Even though I am enjoined to study and check it out...

    I am still expected to give heed to those who have gone before me...

    It's not just me and Scripture...

    We are a church togther...

    Mike Sr.
     
  16. nate

    nate
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    I agree with this statement. The Church was meant to be one entity.
     
  17. Gold Dragon

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    There was also that major split that culminated around 1054. As well as a few major ones in 431 and 451.

    I agree that the protestant reformation has resulted in exponentially more splits that are in opposition to Jesus' prayer in John 17.
     
  18. DeclareHim

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  19. DeclareHim

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    </font>[/QUOTE]Weren't the 431 and 451 splits heretics?
     
  20. BobRyan

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