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Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Monergist, Nov 29, 2002.
That website doesn't pull any punches, does it? I found this in the section on T.U.L.I.P. -
"There are two views concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ. First, there is what we call Calvinism. Then, there are varying degrees of unbelief."
...and its one of my favorites.
Oh, but it is the Arminians who are always so hard and mean to the Calvinists (as people have been claiming here recently, and the site says this as well)!
It is tiring seeing these people accuse Arminians of not preaching the Gospel. (And he calls James Arminius "the arch-heretic of the church!). We all agree with salvation by faith alone, but because some won't express this in terms of "He saved me but passed over someone else" and speculate on the nature of God's eternal decrees (the biggest real differences between the two camps), then he is a heretic at worst, or "confused" at best. At least Arminius and the Remonstrants confessed not having all the answers in these areas, while Calvinists make bold declarations on these things, bend certain scripturs to fit them, make them all-important, and then claim this is "the Gospel" which others aren't preaching.
Otherwise, I do think that prayer is thought provoking, and may be good for someone who admits struggling with feelins like that. I've prayed things similar, (but not nearly on that scale) at times in the past.
[ November 29, 2002, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Eric B ]
Thanks for the link TimothyW.
Where have you ever heard or read of a Calvinist saying such a thing as you describe?
The biggest real difference is over the effect of the Fall in the Garden of Eden. All of our differences derive from this. I find the decree debate to mainly be an intramural Calvinist/hyper-Calvinist debate between supralapsarians and infralapsarians.
tnelson, you're welcome.
Because that's the main objection of non-calvinists, and the whole "effect of the Fall in the Garden of Eden" issue is just to prove that people have no choice to be saved unless specifically, individually "called", while those who do not get saved never received this chance.
The concept of God's "decretive will" in relation to preterition has come up here, and I was speaking of Calvinism in general. That website singles out Arminianism, but doesn't appear from what I saw to take sides in the infra/supra; moderate/hyper debate, so all Calvinism is grouped on the side of "the truth".
No, Eric, this issue is that is what I and other Christians have found the Bible to teach regarding the effects of the Fall in the Garden of Eden.
It is an honest issue. I am sorry you don't see it as such.
Have a good day.
I still think it's taken a bit too far.
Would the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ever do such a thing?