How's this for "Global Warming"?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by baptistteacher, Jan 21, 2006.

  1. baptistteacher

    baptistteacher
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    Take a look at the cold spell in Russia.

    http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1103&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20060121%2F1301906351.htm&sc=1103&photoid=20060120MOSB106

    Here's the beginning of the article:

    Russian Cold Kills at Least 40 People

    By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV
    MOSCOW (AP) - Russia's severest cold in a quarter of a century, with temperatures in Moscow at minus 8 Saturday, has killed at least 40 people and strained the nation's crumbling infrastructure, with residents piling on the blankets and heating bricks to keep warm.

    The big freeze extended to neighboring countries, killing four people in Estonia, one in Moldova and knocking out power and delaying trains in Poland.

    In Moscow, rescue workers found five homeless or drunk people dead, the city emergency medical service said, bringing the number of deaths to more than 20 in the capital during the six-day cold that saw temperatures drop to minus 24 Thursday - coldest on that date since 1927.

    Nineteen people have been hospitalized with hypothermia, the service said.

    In Poland, the cold delayed trains, snarled traffic and prompted the Cabinet to allocate additional funds for homeless shelters and social services to protect the poor.
    -------

    Oy veh!
     
  2. Helen

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    Global warming is real. So is global cooling. We are going to see more and more of the extremes now as the sun is heating up a bit. This causes the waters around the equator to heat up more, and this causes two things: more of a differential in the hot and cold areas of the world, and thus stronger air and water currents (which is what is causing our horrid hurricanes, typhoons, and other weather hazards), and the second thing is more condensation at the equator which will then produce more rain and snow in other areas.

    This is NOT a man-made phenomena and, contrary to the Kyoto Accord and similar, there is nothing we can do about it.

    It might be noticed, however, that this looks like it might be one of the signs Jesus mentioned regarding the end times...famines and earthquakes are both connected to these events.
     
  3. BruceB

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    Helen,
    I have heard many explanations of global warming over the past 10-15 years and yours is the first that makes any sense at all.
    Bruce
     
  4. Aaron

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    We've been warming up since the Ice Age—nothing to do whatever with Industrial emissions.
     
  5. Pete

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    Was talking to a friend in Estonia on 'net the other night, was -30°c there :eek: [​IMG]

    Funny how things change though...just a bit over 20 years ago when I was at school (not that I can remember that much from back then ;) ) all the screaming was about another ice age coming [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  6. Helen

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    Aaron, the 'warming' after the ice age of Job started with a correction in the axis tilt of the earth in 2345 BC. This was not really a warming but rather a settling of weather patterns with a less dramatic tilt. The material on this, researched and put together by the late government astronomer of South Australia, George Dodwell, is due out this year.

    That correction in axis tilt, by the way, caused the subsequent wobble that was responsible for the long day of Joshua, the recession of the shadow in the time of King Hezekiah, and the strange darkness at noon on the day of the Crucifixion. The timing was God's and the Creation is His, and that is not to dispute any of that. But the events all do have a relationship and a physical beginning.

    The warming of the sun is different. That has been going on for a couple of hundred years now. A couple of articles about it follow:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1045327.stm

    http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040718-115714-6334r.htm
     
  7. Shiloh

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    .............BALONEY..........
     
  8. Shiloh

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    Helen, I live in Northern Maine. Don't tell us about "global warming". Paper lays still so anything can be written on it. To swallow everything written on paper will only make one look stupid.
     
  9. StraightAndNarrow

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    Is there scientific proof that global warming is not a result of our lack of stewardship of the earth?
     
  10. Helen

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    Shiloh, you are getting famous for knee-jerk reactions! Read my first post on this -- there is both global warming AND global cooling going on because of increase output from the sun warming tropical waters and thus creating a steeper temperature gradient around the world.

    StraightandNarrow, this may help:
    http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2005/09/sunwarm.html

    It should be also noted that the increased warmth of the tropical waters will release more carbon dioxide into the air. New Scientist (Jan. 14, 2006, p. 19) just came out with a report that a lot of methane gas is given off by TREES! These are greenhouse gases that man was considered primarily responsible for!

    I'm not denying that our poor stewardship of the earth has not added to the problem. We always seem to add to problems! But the primary problem is not us in this case.
     
  11. Helen

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  12. Shiloh

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    Shiloh, you are getting famous for knee-jerk reactions! Read my first post on this --
    -------------------------------------------------
    I didn't realize I was famous, wow, [​IMG] But no thank you on reading the articles you scrounged up. Do you know what the big problem is here in Maine and has been for the past 30 years? OVERCUTTING OF TREES :confused: It's common knowledge that the rain forest in South America is being depleted by timber harvest. Maybe they should get the nuts that gripe about overcutting trees and the idiots that are infatuated with too many trees giving off methane gas and send them to Pluto to study where we came from. Helen, maybe you need to get a job.
     
  13. PastorSBC1303

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    Now is this necessary in the discussion? Can you not discuss something without doing this type of thing over and over again?
     
  14. Shiloh

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    Why don't you lighten up bud! [​IMG]
     
  15. UTEOTW

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    I think the OP was relating a recent snap of extreme cold in Russia to the alledged problem of global warming. Please allow me to give you my perspective on the matter.

    As background, I was lond time denier of global warming. Of course, being a politically conservative man who works for a large utility, it was just what you would expect. I changed my mind about two years ago. What changed my mind was a paper I read by a guy named James Hansen. More on him later. A preview will be that I cannot find that particular paper at this time. But it was about 30 pages and I doubt many people would wade through it. I did find a shorter version though. One thing I liked about the one that changed my mind was how he took both sided of the debate to the woodshed for selectively citing data and overestimating effects.

    As far as the extreme cold goes, that is not really a contradiction with global warming. In fact, as has been pointed out, it is really an expectation that you should see more extreme weather in all directions.

    In addition, global warming may mean much cooler long term climates for parts of the world. For example, if global warming was too accelerate the melting of the polar icecaps, the influx of fresh water to the north Atlantic could disrupt the conveyor system that drives the Gulf Stream. Areas now warmed by the Gulf Stream, especially western Europe, could see colder, drier weather.

    Now, back to Hansen. Here is a link to a short paper.

    http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1998/1998_HansenSatoL.pdf

    Hansen, J., Mki. Sato, A. Lacis, R. Ruedy, I. Tegen, and E. Matthews 1998. Perspective: Climate forcings in the industrial era. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 95, 12753-12758.

    Now if you don't read anything at all, just look at Figure 2 on the second page.

    It lists that various changes in climate forcins in industrial times, starting in 1850. The numbers are in watts per square meter. So if something has increased by one unit, that means that the particular cause is causing an extra watt of heat to be retained per square meter of the earth's surface.

    You will see that on the human induced side of the chart has both warming and cooling effects. But let's look at the natural side first since it has already been brought up.

    You will see that there has been a change of about 0.4 W/m^2 since 1850. Now above, Helen linked a report that said that "At least 10 to 30 percent of global warming measured during the past two decades may be due to increased solar output rather than factors such as increased heat-absorbing carbon dioxide gas released by various human activities, two Duke University physicists report." Now I realize that I am comparing apples and oranges since my paper deals with a different time span but here goes. If you go to the Hansen chart, you will see that the forcing from human released greenhouse gasses is 2.3 W/m^2. That means that the sun's part of the total of these two is about 15%. Right in the range from her link. An since most of the warming has been recent, I don't think that the difference in times makes much difference. The effect is the same.

    So if you go to the Figure 2 again and add up all of the forcings, the total is a difference of about 1 W/m^2. The author predicts a further change of about 3 F. [If you take the 0.4 fraction of the sun from the net forcing of 1.0 then you get a percentage from the sun of about 40%, just slightly higher than from the source Helen cited.]

    In any case, global warming is a real phenomenon. It causes are complex and include both natural and human causes. Whether we should attempt to deal with it raises another host of complex questions. My opinion would be that we should try and deal with the human caused part of it. If we are polluting so much as to change the earth's climate then we have a responsibility as good stewards to try and minimize the damage.

    Here is another Hansen link, BTW.

    http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/

    It has some additional links and a summary of debate he had with a global warming denier.

    As for other effects, there have a been a few recent studies that have shown that the energy released yearly by hurricanes has been increasing as global temperatures have increased though the storm frequency remains unchanged.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7769
     
  16. AntennaFarmer

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    A side note on hurricanes and global warming:

    Quote from: NOAA Hurricane Research Division FAQ.

    "it is highly unlikely that global warming has (or will) contribute to a drastic change in the number or intensity of hurricanes. We have not observed a long-term increase in the intensity or frequency of Atlantic hurricanes."

    http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G4.html

    and a related FAQ:

    http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G3.html

    And finally, an interesting article about the increase in hurricane activity:

    http://www.magazine.noaa.gov/stories/mag184.htm

    A.F.
     
  17. StraightAndNarrow

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    What many people don't understand is that the weather can still be very cold (say -10 deg. in northern Maine) and yet global warming can still be taking place. We're talking about relatively small temperature changes (a few degrees or less) that can have catastropic effects because the ecosystem of the earth is in a very delicate balance.
     
  18. mnw

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    Like Helen I saw some articles and even a news report on the fact that trees are one of the biggest contributors to methane emissions... so are live stock...(They account for about 14%)

    So to be a tree hugging vegetarian is destroying our world! Cut down more trees, eat more beef, lamb, chicken, reindeer and pork! Save the world!

    On a more serious note. Here are a couple of interesting articles:

    http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2005-12-01T161334Z_01_DIT158399_RTRUKOC_0_US-COWS-METHANE.xml

    http://www.techcentralstation.com/112204A.html

    http://www.probe.org/content/view/669/67/
     
  19. buckster75

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    didn't you see The Day After Tomorrow?
    The global warming caused severe blizzards.
     
  20. Gold Dragon

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    Excellent scientific information UTEOTW. But I think your theological point should be highlighted.

    Whether we believe global warming is really happening or not, pollution and human impact on God's creation is a reality. And the Christian response should be to be good stewards of God's creation whether we believe negative consequences to human action are very near (environmentalists) or far away (skeptics of environmentalism).
     

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