Hurricanes and other 'natural' disasters C/A

Luk 13:1 There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way?
Luk 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

 

Most probably, if he wanted to stop those events, he could have figured out a way to do it without destroying New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary in the process.

Or, who knows? Maybe he was ticked at them, too...

(Note re: the orginal question, I'm uncalvinized.)

 

Well we DO know some things about God and sin.

In Lev 18 the things you described above (homosexual sin) are specifically listed as that which caused God to destroy PAGAN nations and would also cause him to destroy ISRAEL.

IN Genesis 15 we are told that God has measuring line for measuring the iniquity EVEN of the pagan nations and determining their probation time - how much more Christian nations.

So at the very least we know that God removed his protection and allowed the disaster.

One has to see that in the destruction of every one of the pagan nations in the past - many innocent men women and children died - as they did in the flood.

And it does no good to say that if they ever sinned then they deserved what they got - since we do not say such monsterous things about our own neighbors and natural disasters.

A callous disregard for the fate of others is not the lot of Christians. Yet we can "admit" to the principle God identifies when He speaks of probation (a limit to sin) that is given EVEN to pagan nations.

In Christ,

Bob

 

What we do know is this:

1. God did allow it.

2. God has in the past punished certain cities for sin.

3. God may have used this as a punishment for sin, or he may have not. There is no way to know for certain.

Personally, I'm not going to say for certain one way or another. I think it is presumptuous to proclaim that this is definitely God's judgment, but it is equally presumptuous to proclaim that it definitely isn't.

 

God gave us names of sins, not to identify which is more heinous than the other, but to teach us what is right and what is wrong.

Why would God destroy a city over one sin or another? Is murder less heinous than sexual inpropriety? If that be the case Detroit, New York, Chicago and other huge crime-laden cities would have been destroyed many years ago.

My God and Bible is converned with sin, not sins. Further, God promised never to destroy the earth by flood and gave the rainbow as a sign of that covenant.

Why not leave the world as God left it? It is under natural laws, and if man challenges those natural laws, eventually they will catch up.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Diane,

I do not know that God did this to stop the parades and sin, but I thank God that they will not happen.

I am also praying that God will protect the cities that are accepting refugees from the evil (voodoo etc) that will accompany some of them.

 

I'm with Monergist on this dianetavegia. I'm definitly calvinised as you know.

john.

 

I agree, Jim.

Chicago is hosting the 'Gay' Olympics this year and it is still standing...

 

My thoughts on this....

Prov 1

22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: 26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; 27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: 29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: 30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. 31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. 33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
***********************

I'm not sure it matters if it is judgement or not. The bottom line is that no matter what Gods will was in this, Man should always seek God and repent of sin. It very well could be it is the judgement of God....or it could be just life. But if it is a judgement of God, It was not just judgement on the one city. This whole nation has turned its back on God. No doubt in each one of our cities where we live we know of some sin that God could bring judgement on and if so, many would die. There were more sins in New Orleans than just Gay parades. There as been voodoo practice in the city for years along with drunkness, stealling, lies and many others things. But what city does not have all of these things or at least most?

The fact is we just do not know why. But as I said, what is more important how EACH of us respond to this tragedy. This should be a "life check for us. To remind is about how uncertain life is. We should all make sure we now have our own lives in line with Gods will. Any sins we have in our lives should be removed and we should repent abd return to God. We should also see the lives of others that do not Know Christ, and how we need to share Gods Word with them.

The helplessness shown in the peoples eyes should make any of us be moved with careing for souls. Their hope was in a goverment to save them. Yet salvation of the soul is their only true hope. Sad it was to see many with a anger in their voices and not thankfulness to God for saving them. It was sad to see still others curse God. Others still, took to the streets to steal, kill and rape. Bad times always brings out our hearts for others to see, and if this was judgement , it did not stop the sinning. In many cases some just took up new sins.


I'm not sure how i would have reacted if I was in such a bad flood, but I hope i would draw closer to God. God forbid, but if this time comes my way, and if it was just a time such as Job had, I need to make sure I am close to God just as Job. If its Judgement, I need to repent and get close to God. If its God just wanting to make me stronger, still, it is God I need.

In many ways this was a part of each of our lives. We all saw the faces of need. We all have seen how easy and fast death can come. We all saw the bodies. We all heard the cries for help. We all know what they really need. They need much more then a bottle of water. They need God. Now..what will each of us do?


In Christ....James

 

I guess you should find one of His prophets and ask them. I know that God has done it, but I do not know why. (Calvinist)

 

Genesis says God would have spared Sodom and Gomorrah for just one righteous soul...........remember, the Baptist seminary was also destroyed in this catastrophe..........think!

Cheers,

Jim

 

It certainly was one purpose. (Calvinist)

 

EZE 16:49 " `Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

I was watching some of the English arrive home today. A traumatized girl was talking about the horror of the stadium but over and over again she spoke of the kindness and the sharing that went on as did another girl. There is not too much wrong with a society when desperate people are willing to share and I saw that going on, (I watch Fox News). You're a long way from Sodom when people risk their lives and health to help those in need.

In the world of men that levee was designed to withstand a force 3 hurricane and the city rode it's luck. Since the city can be hit by one that is force 5 then the defences should be to that spec. There can be no excuse. If it can happen it will.

john.

 

Genesis 18:20 And the Lord said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know."

Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. </font>[/QUOTE]Good points Diane -

And as Lev 18 points out the list of sins for which EVEN Pagan nations are destroyed includes the sin of homosexuality.

Those who insist that the fact that the Baptist Seminary was destroyed should eliminate the Bible principle about judgment on pagan nations for the crime of homosexuality - are simply not doing their homework!

Daniel was a very "nice guy" and even "a saint" but HIS HOME was destroyed - his family captured his friends killed and he got dragged off as a slave to Babylon.

BECAUSE the city - the NATION that he belonged to was in gross rebellion against God!

One could NOT argue "YES but DANIEL was captured and sent off like the others - so this can not POSSBILY be a judgment from God NOR can it be a limit on probation for the nation".

Think people!

In Christ,

Bob

 

... These PAGAN nations were destroyed for this.

SO ALSO would Israel be judged for this should they choose to engage in gross sins.

[

And of course - in the end -- all are burned in a lake of fire.

But the question is - does God ALSO judge BEFORE that lake of fire as in the case of the Amorites and Israel, Sodom, the flood, etc.

In Christ,

Bob

 

So is the web site for New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary.

They have no power.

This does not necessarily have to be a judgement just because it follows Scripture...

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
Matthew 5:45