Hyles?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by FaithRemains, Jan 3, 2002.

  1. FaithRemains

    FaithRemains
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    I'm new around here and have seen the term "hyles type" in reference to fundamental baptists. I know (at least i think i know) that this refers to Jack Hyles, however i don't know what a "hyles type fundamental baptist" and a "non-hyles type fundamental baptist" are. please help me.
     
  2. EPH 1:4

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    A church or person that follows the teachings of Jack Hyles believe in what they call "standards"...(women don't wear pants, don't go to the "moviehouse" and so on) also they believe in "soulwinning"...everyone meets at the church on a certain night and break off into pairs, and they knock on doors, tell the sinner "the plan of salvation" and then say "if you will repeat this prayer after me, you will go to heaven." The people or churches that don't do these things are "not right with God." Other preachers that teach these "truths" are Gray, Hatch, the late John R. Rice and Curtis Hutson. Some people refer to these type teachings as brain-washing or a cult.
     
  3. Roadrunner

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    Joshua [I'm new around here and have seen the term "hyles type" in reference to fundamental baptists. I know (at least i think i know) that this refers to Jack Hyles, however i don't know what a "hyles type fundamental baptist" and a "non-hyles type fundamental baptist" are. please help me.]

    RR- The 'Hyles type' of fundamentalist can mean several different things, for instance:

    1. Strong pastor led church, sometimes to the point where he is overbearing; ie, The preacher often equates himself to a prophet. He insists that he has 'veto power' in your life, ie you should come to him about everything and ought to do what he says. This can get to the place where the pastor must "approve" of your decisions, who to marry, which house you buy, where you go to school, if you can accept a certain job or not, etc. And woe be to you if you go against the "man of God's" counsel, because you will be out of God's will forever until you submit yourself to him.

    2. Strong emphasis on methods, to the minimization of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is reduced to a person "making the right decision." If you are familiar with the term 'man centered evangelism,' Hyles was a champion of this philosophy.

    3. Numbers, numbers, numbers! The Hyles ego was famous. He wanted to be everyone's hero. The bus ministry was used to get so many baptisms for the church. Its a shame that FBC baptised so many thousands of children without the parents even knowing it. He is the prime reason so manny chuches have contests to see who can get the most people saved in a program. One of my HAC teachers, (who left his wife for a female student) claimed to win 44 people to Jesus on a single Saturday afternoon. East Coast Baptist Church of Virginia Beach, VA, a church of 100 people, for several years has baptized over 1000 people per year- yet they still remain at 100 attendance. (You figure it out.) The point is not to actually help people, but to rack up numbers that looks good.

    3. The denial of the necessity of repentance in salvation, and the tendancy to deny the necessity of a changed life.

    4. Incredible over-emphasis of "standards." Enough religious rules for everyone to have seconds. For example, because using dice is evil, you must find some other way to randomly generate a number, even if you are playing monopoly.

    [ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Roadrunner ]
     
  4. rlvaughn

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    Roadrunner has nailed it pretty well. I just wanted to add that when I speak of a Hyles/Rice type of fundamentalist, I am specifically thinking of the easy believism promoted by these men and their followers. Evangelism is streamlined into a method that will produce the right results and sinners are "given" assurance of salvation because they gave the right answers. Terms such as "making a decision" & "accepting Christ", and things such as repeat-after-me prayers are prominent among these types.
     
  5. TomVols

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    They also are staunchly dispensational, staunchly KJVonly, staunchly easy-believism although they deny this whole-heartedly. They also do not preach expositorily. They are against everything and everybody, particularly Biblically confessional churches and denominations. If you are not Hyles-like, then you're liberal, regardless of what you believe or practice. It is very cult-like and unScriptural. I know from having been there.
     
  6. rsr

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    To rlvaughn:

    In reference to "easy-believism" in the Hyles-Rice tradition, do you think that is a matter of doctrine or indoctrination? That is, do they make it easy to become church members so they can exercise power over them?

    If so, or if not, how do you think this is different from "easy-believism" that doesn't place the pastor of the throne and require conformance with a set of church laws?

    Is one worse than the other?
     
  7. rlvaughn

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsr:
    To rlvaughn:
    ...do you think that is a matter of doctrine or indoctrination? That is, do they make it easy to become church members so they can exercise power over them?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am not sure I can answer your questions, but I will try to give what I think. It is probably both. Some, I think, do not have a proper grasp on the Bible truths concerning salvation, the work of the Spirit and repentance. Maybe they are themselves converted but will not allow God to work the salvation of an individual. The second (easy church members whom you have lordship over) I have witnessed in some area churches. A dominant-type pastor is called to a church; he quickly adds easychurch members; the new members follow his leadership and he overthrows the older members (running them off or kicking them out) and takes total control.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If so, or if not, how do you think this is different from "easy-believism" that doesn't place the pastor of the throne and require conformance with a set of church laws?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They are different, but I think they probably have very similar outcomes as far as the individual who "accepts Christ" under this plan is concerned.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Is one worse than the other?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Either is dangerous, and I don't feel I am able to quantify the greater danger.
     
  8. rsr

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    To rlvaughn:

    I truly appreciate your answers ... not that they're easy.

    I grew up in what you might call an "easy-believeism" church. Now I am attending an church in which it seems every time the pastor has counseled with the individual or family before a decision has been made. If an invididual has come forward without counseling, the decision is not announced to the congregation. I think this is a reasonable solution. But churches in my denomination often count "numbers" and not true results.
    I think pastoral counseling in advnce of a public decision is the best course.
    Pardon me if I am tedious.
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    It always seem oddly paradoxical that the Hyles-type of "soul winning" - seeking a decision, a recitation of a rote prayer, a raised hand - were so opposed to the Billy Graham-type of mass evangelism and easy believism of his psychological manipulation.

    Can remember many sermons condeming the easy believism of Graham done by preachers like Hyles who practiced the exact same thing under the pseudonym of "soul winning".

    Curiouser and Curiouser. :confused:

    [ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  10. Pete Richert

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    How is it that a church can be into both "easy-believeism" and have strict standards at the same time? Is it that those whose soul they win never attend church to be conformed to these standards? Or are the standards always external and not representative of a renewed heart? Or are the standards always in terms of rewards in heaven and not concerning salvation?
     
  11. Don

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    You know, Pete, I thought there was an easy answer to your question. It's not as easy as I thought. After a little thought, here goes:

    Easy believism is meant to carve a notch in your bible. It has nothing, really, to do with an individual's salvation. This type of evangelism is more concerned with numbers than with actual conversions. Hyles, Vines in Oklahoma City, and a few others are highly indicative of this.

    The strict standards part? Comes from their view of discipleship. Everyone who says they're saved must now act like cookie dough, and allow the same mold to be used on them. In other words, everyone's supposed to act like just like Hyles, Vines, etc.; but especially the pastor that "won their soul" (I really have come to dislike that term "soulwinning"). In other words, if you don't look/act/speak like Hyles, Vines, or the pastor that led you to the Lord, then by golly by gum, there's something wrong with you, boy!

    Not real clear, but hopefully understandable.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Most people who are "won to the Lord" in soul winning and gospel tract ministries, bus ministries, etc, never become a part of a local church. They are just a # on a report so that a church/bus/individual can "claim" another convert.

    Not far from selling indulegences. :mad:

    My prayer is that they are ALL truly born again. I would love to see them in a bible preaching/teaching assembly and grow in grace. Even the most rabid of these types of ministries work hard at "bringing them in" to be baptized and catachized.
     
  13. grantb

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    I'm new at this also. Been reading some of the threads posted. Sounds like some of you people don't know anything about gleaning.

    I understand some of the so-called "Hyles crowd" leaned toward shallow soul winning,
    I understand his personality sort of stuck out.

    But the bible does say he that winneth souls is wise, The bible does teach that the pastor is the leader of the local church taking orders from God and passed on to the Believers.

    I didn't agree with everything that Dr. Hyles preached, but he was God's man. Some of the best preaching tapes I have are of Dr. Hyles.

    Fresh Oil, This Kind, Others

    I recommend you find some these (offered on the internet now)and listen to what he has to say himself before you let some of these people make up your mind for you. If you learn how to glean you can get help.

    Until he comes,
    Grant
     
  14. rlvaughn

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    Grant, welcome to the Baptist Board. I usually PM new members on the forums I moderate, but don't see that option for you. I'd like to encourage you to visit the "Welcome to Baptist Board.com" forum and introduce yourself, and let everyone say Hi.
     

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