Hypothetical Communion Question

Because I used it to describe an action, not a person. I do dumb things on occasion. Well, occasion is probably an understatement. Well, occasion is not probably an understatement. It is is an understatement. I do dumb things way too often. That doesn't make me dumb or stupid.

My point is that I believe drinking alcohol is unwise. It serves no legitimate purpose in modern society. It causes way too many problems that are easily avoided. If someone disagrees with me, that is between them and God.

 

Just happened to run across this thread. I did not read the entire thing - but it sounds like it got pretty heavy.

A stalwart of our fellowship many, many years ago decided after much prayer that he should do this very thing. The deacons supported the move. A time later (not sure how long) he reversed course. He told this story in our Preaching Workshop class in Bible College. This man of God is in heaven today but I would never say he failed to study the Word in life. He acted upon his conscience and later acted again upon his conscience to right what he felt he had done wrong. I respect him greatly for his honesty and the fruits of his ministry bore him out.

Now to my problem. My father-in-law and his fiancee (who is Jewish) have invited my family to visit them this Spring. Both are unsaved. It happens to coincide with Passover and they will have a traditional Passover meal that we will be expected to participate in. I thought wine was served during a traditional meal??? If so, do we have some allowable kosher alternatives that will keep with the spirit of the feast without damaging our testimony?

 

If you are concerned with the wine - most markets sell kosher for Passover grape juice that is used by children and those who cannot have alchohol for medical reasons.

What a wonderful opportunity to illustrate how Jesus is our passover lamb, that is represented in the broken, hidden, and "resurrected" middle matzoh.

 

Debby, I've actually participated in a number of "Christian" passover observances in our church. Of course, we used grape juice. Not sure what the family will be doing yet. I'll need to find out in advance. Also, the middle matzoh is interesting. I need to find out more the history of the modern passover. How in the world could they come up with the three matzoh outside of an understanding of the triune God?

 

According to some things I've read, the practice only dates back to the time AFTER Christ, and that it may well have been added to the Haggadah by Jewish believers, and unwittingly copied by non-believers. The three matzohs are sometimes even referred to as "The Unity." The name of the middle matzoh, that children "find' after the dinner is over, is afikomen, which is not Hebrew, but Greek, and can mean "I came."

I think you can find some of this from the "Jews for Jesus" folks.

 

Mystery of the Passover Cup

JEWS FOR JESUS LINK

 

Since we are talking about Baptist Pastors, I would be concerned that the Pastor and Deacons made this important decision without asking for a vote by the church body. This is not something a few people should decide on. It should be made by the majority in a proper business meeting with decussion.
What do you give children? What age limit switches from grape juice to wine? Is it legal to serve even small amounts of wine to teenagers? How do you tell the ages of some of these young people? They could look 15 and be 22.
Also what message does it send to our young people? (drinking alcohol is okay because we do it in church) Too many young people see their parents drink alcohol in moderation, then go out and get falling down drunk, then get in a vehicle and kill themselves or someone else. We have to set good examples for our children. They often don't understand the different between moderation and getting drunk to fit in with their friends. Parents really don't have as much influence as friends do these days.

What about the adults who do not partake of alcoholic beverages. Are you going to separate them from the ones who do? What a mess that could turn out to be.

I can see why a Pastor would change his mind and switch back to grape juice. This opens up a can of worms in a Baptist church.

Since we do not believe (as the Catholics do) that the bread and juice literally become the body and blood of Jesus, I can see no good reason to switch to wine, but I can see many reasons why it would cause lots of problems.

 

Debby,

Thanks for the link. I took a quick read but will have to take time to read more diligently. I'll bookmark the site for reference and look up others.

 

I wondered about the legality of giving wine to minors but I asked a Lutheran pastor who is a good friend of mine and he said t hat there was no problem with that. Of course they are Biblical and use real wine unlike most Baptist, (me included)

It amazes me how little people really read the Bible on the topic. There are so many topics that take a lot of study and there seems to be some room for error, but all you ever get with this one is personal sentiment and experience.

Wine is a blessing from God, when Israel was blessed by God, they had plenty of it....when they weren't....well, you get the point.

Wine is not only acceptable for the Lord's Supper and in moderate use, it is a GOOD thing, a gift from God when used in the proper manner, when it "Cheereth God and Man" however when man is decieved by the abuse of it he is very "unwise" as the Proverbs state.

So, to answer the original post...I wish our Church could make that decision.

 

I have seen this stated a couple of times now, "Pastor and Deacons making this decision without asking for a vote from the church body"!!! Where in the NT do you find support for majority rule in the church? Or is it just assumed since it has become part of Baptist church polity and in most of our "Constitution and By-Laws"???

What about "Obey them that have the rule over you..." and "them that rule well"? Church harmony in a decision, OK. But a church vote? Support that one with Scripture!

 

Not sure that THIS aspect of the CUP has been discussed, but I do recall reading an article years ago sincerely suggesting that the use of communion cupS (emphasis on the plural ending) was unscriptural because NO WHERE in the Bible (according to this article's author) do you read that more than ONE cup was ever mentioned.

I'm sure that the church which this dear brother pastored was quite small, but I was wondering if anyone else out there had ever heard of THIS notion.