Hypothetical Situation

How about "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." spoken byJesus Christ ? The One who died on the cross for her ? The One who loved her BEFORE she loved Him ?

Now, some on here will jump in and say "mammon is money"....hey, whatever...

like I used to say before, "Scriptures don't mean nuthin' becuz people will jist go on believin' what they'all wan' believe".

To put it more strongly, "Jesus don't mean nuthin', that stripe that healed ? yeah, well, thanks, didn't ask you to do it for me, right ?".

 

Scripture allowing a divorce when the spouse commits adultry, but no scripture allowing you to move on, moving on to another man is scripturally called adultry, because you have a living husband.
God loves us unconditionally, yes, but that does not mean we are allowed to do what we want instead of what scripture says. God does not bless the efforts of sin. God DOES NOT close the door on marriages, got a scripture for that one? No you don't. God does not 'grow' closer to anyone who prefers sin over Him, who makes excuses for living in sin. A relatiosnship with God in a feeling. Jesus said if you love Me keep my commands. Not wanting to keep His commands, not wanting to know what scripture really says about it so you can continue in sin means not loving Jesus. Period, end of story. You can not make up what you want scripture to say, you can not use it anyway you want.

MK is correct, repenting means turning from sin, not to it. A relationship with this man is sin, why? Because she as a living husband.

 

I would say mammon is anything we put before God, anything we allow to come in His place in our hearts.

 

I truly don't see why sex is considered the BIG bugaboo it is by some people. People who are innocent victims do have every right to move on with their lives. They are no longer bound to an unfaithful spouse.

 

Who are you speaking of?

Who said they shouldn't move on with their lives? What is an innocent victim with regards to this thread?

So you are saying if my wife commits adultery at 7pm tonight, then I am no longer bound to her? This means we are not longer husband and wife bound to one another? I can shake myself of her, and date another lady tomorrow?

please elaborate....

 

scripture is scripture, you may dismiss it in your life, but don't expect the rest of us too, or too aprove of it.

 

It's not me dismissing scripture.

Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

 

Mark 10
11So He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Luke 16:
18"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

 

yes....
Matthew 15:10-16
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.” 
12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” 
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.” 
15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.” 
16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding?

Alright....but I don't see how you couldn't see it as adulterous when you have been offered bible verses to prove otherwise. Do you only read and hear the warm and fuzzy bible verses? This is not to be mean, I like your posts. They are very funny, and you seem nice. Yet then I feel sad at the realization of how deceived you are.

I love all people too, and want to help them. That is why it is best for the church members not to have her around. She can only desensitize them and innocent children by expousing her sin in their presence. She can cause others to stumble, something we as Christians are not to do. Something we as people, don't want to do to another person.

The world doesn't revolve around her because she has troubles. We have all had problems. You act as if you and your friend are the only one's who understand these types of situations. Not everyone on the BB lived in a cave before conversion. Many on the BB have experienced similar situations firsthand, and are giving you godly advice out of love. Yet you misinterpret it as "throwing stones". I don't understand, why? None of us have the right to throw stones, and some of us have probably sinned much worse than you have. So it's not about that...

You both need to speak with the Pastor or his wife, you both need counseling. Try to find stable, solid Christians to be in your life instead of others living in the muck of the world. You will need to fake it. Often Christians become afraid if you seem to worldy. I still have to watch my speech around some people, but I know if I watch it for a while, they will let their guard down and allow me to get to know them. Then we are able to be friends or on friendly terms at the very least.

Your friend needs help, and not from someone in the same boat as her. The guy who is "treating her right" is her enemy, not her friend. A man has no business talking to a woman about her marriage, little lone the intimate, private details of such. Then when the woman does talk, he takes advantage of it by using her for you know what. Of course he treats her right, look what he is getting in return! Don't be gullible...

She needs someone to guide her into salvation, something I am confident you cannot do. If she doesn't understand her depravity, become ashamed and broken by it, she will probably not wholeheartidly seek her Creator. Sadly, that is how it usually goes. Most everyone I know of had to hit rock bottom before waking up.

We can't make ourselves repent, we can only ask the Lord to humble us to allow it to happen. We can and should, continuously pray for repentance, and ASK to feel sorrow for sins. Read the Bible daily.

Let your friend go, let her live!

I am not sure why she even wants to go to church. But it's a good sign. I pray she seeks guidance from her pastor's wife or a Pastoral Staff member before getting herself removed from the church body.

Here are some verses which came to mind (for the both of you)

2 Timothy 3: 1-7
Perilous Times and Perilous Men
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

King David fell into grave sexual sin, stole another man's wife, then had him murdered. See Psalm 17 below.

I suggest this is a prayer you and your friend. Read it closely, each sentence then get on your knees.
David's prayer is one of humbleness, without pride, asking the Lord to keep him safe, away from the world and his enemies (he had many)because he knows he will walk in the flesh otherwise. David asks the Lord to hide him in the Lord's wings. He is weak, knows this, so he asks the Lord for help.

Psalm 17*(New King James Version)
Psalm 17
A Prayer of David.
1 Hear a just cause, O LORD,
Attend to my cry;
Give ear to my prayer which is not from deceitful lips.
2 Let my vindication come from Your presence;
Let Your eyes look on the things that are upright.
3 You have tested my heart;
You have visited me in the night;
You have tried me and have found nothing;
I have purposed that my mouth shall not transgress.
4 Concerning the works of men,
By the word of Your lips,
I have kept away from the paths of the destroyer.
5 Uphold my steps in Your paths,
That my footsteps may not slip.

6 I have called upon You, for You will hear me, O God;
Incline Your ear to me, and hear my speech.
7 Show Your marvelous lovingkindness by Your right hand,
O You who save those who trust in You
From those who rise up against them.
8 Keep me as the apple of Your eye;
Hide me under the shadow of Your wings,
9 From the wicked who oppress me,
From my deadly enemies who surround me.

10 They have closed up their fat hearts;
With their mouths they speak proudly.
11 They have now surrounded us in our steps;
They have set their eyes, crouching down to the earth,
12 As a lion is eager to tear his prey,
And like a young lion lurking in secret places.
13 Arise, O LORD,
Confront him, cast him down;
Deliver my life from the wicked with Your sword,
14 With Your hand from men, O LORD,
From men of the world who have their portion in this life,
And whose belly You fill with Your hidden treasure.
They are satisfied with children,
And leave the rest of their possession for their babes.
15 As for me, I will see Your face in righteousness;
I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness.

 

So you pick and choose verses to support your error, rather than consider all scripture. Interesting.

 

MP I agree with you, but there evidently you missed something when reading this thread. Superwoman's friend had/has a s*xual relationship with a man not her husband that resulted in a pregnancy before the woman's divorce was final. In this case (unlike in Superwoman's) we don't know why the divorce was occuring. She might have left her husband or it might be the other way round. We aren't given that info.

What we are being told is that this woman wishes to continue the relationship with the baby's father with the implication that she is also continuing to have s*x with this man that she is NOT married to nor does she have any plans on marrying him in the future.

Continuing an intimate relationship with a man not ones husband is adultry plain and simple and the Bible we both read is plain in telling Christians to refrain from it.

It is not that we are choosing one sin over another to beat people over the head with. It is the continuing sin after being confronted with it that is the problem. And if our Bible tells us it is okay to continue on with what we recognize to be sin, then I've missed it somewhere and need you to show it to me.

 

Believing scripture is error? I gave exactly what the bible says, there is no error there. I am sorry you chose not to believe God.

 

Dear Superwoman,

I want to address you as one of the moderators of this forum before engaging in a discussion of the questions you are asking. First, you titled this thread as being a hypothetical situation. However, right here in the OP you announce that it is in fact a real situation going on within your church. You need to be more careful with the facts when you post or your credibility is going to come into question. Second, according to the OP you claim that this woman has repented. However, in your next post you go on to explain that she is actually continuing the adulterous relationship with the man (who is not her husband). As has been explained to you by several posters there appears to be no repentance, sorrow yes maybe, but no true repentance because she still wishes to maintain the adulterous (sinful) relationship. True repentance results in a turning away from the old sinful behavior as well as being sorrowful over having been involved in the first place. If you wish to engage in meaningful Christian discussion here you need to always present the facts and be completely truthful. Otherwise, how can we take you seriously?

I’ll try to answer your questions and other posts later.

Yours in Christ,

Bible-boy,
Forum Moderator

 

I am sorry you choose to ignore the scripture I quoted you. LIke I said, you have to look at what the Bible says in its entirety, not pick and choose cafeteria style. Otherwise it is you ignoring the counsel of scripture while accusing me of doing so. Again, interesting position.

 

Why was a decree of divorcement given in the first place?

Should we be in God's permissive will or His perfect will?

They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Matthew 19:7-8

 

Isn't the real issue here not about how this woman and her husband became/are getting a divorce(d), but about how she became pregnant by a man who is not lawfully joined to her....AND the fact that she sees nothing wrong with having a physical relationship with this man that is not to be (at the moment) her spouse?

I agree with DonnA and MP. That is what the Bible says, but what about the pride in her heart? It reminds me of Paul writing to the Corinthian church, which I believe has been sourced in this thread. The act is one thing, but what about the attitude toward it?

In the case of 1 Cor 5, the church didn't really care that it was going on. What about those commiting the act? Obviously they didn't care either, otherwise they would've turned away from their transgressions.

Isn't this a core issue of being "puffed up"?

David

 

My goodness, I actually agree with MP. How can one say that a person who is freed from the marriage covenant because of adultery not move on? The Bible in no way says the wronged person cannot marry another person. The covenant has been legally dissolved by God's decree. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Well, since she took it upon herself to announce to members of the church that she is pregnant by a man that is not her husband it is clear that there is a sin involved. The next step is to begin the process of church discipline in order to restore her to right relationship with Christ and His church (Matt. 18:15-20). The first thing to happen should have been for one mature believer (Christian) to go to her in private and point out that it is a sin for her to be in a s*xual relationship outside the bounds of wedlock. The Bible calls such s*xual relationships fornication. In addition, since this woman is actually still married to her husband she has likewise fallen into an adulterous relationship with this other man. If she listens to this mature believer, repents of these sins (this means that she agrees that what she has been doing is sinful, that she is sorrowful for her sins, that she turns away from the sinful behavior, that she stops committing that which is sinful before God, then that is the end of the church discipline and the church is free to minister to her every need. If she refuses to listen and repent then the process of church discipline continues as prescribed in Matt. 18:16-20 always with the goal of restoring the erring sister to right relationship with Christ and His church. Even if it comes to the point of Matt. 18:17 and she refuses to listen to the church, and she is therefore to be treated as an unbeliever, you all would still show her kindness and share the gospel with her (explaining her need for the Savior to forgive her of her sins) in an attempt to bring her into right relationship with Christ and welcome her into the church body.

The most loving and supportive thing her church can do for her is to be honest enough to show her error to her, call her to repentance, and help her to be in right relationship with Christ. It is never loving or kind to wink at sin (particularly regarding someone who professes to be a believer) and act as if nothing is wrong. The church must first deal with the root of the problem, especially with respect to an erring believer, before it can effectively minister to her. Her real need is to be in right relationship with Christ and that supersedes her perceived need for love and support during a difficult time in her life.

 

She is looking at this from the wrong perspective. She should not be asking herself what she wants; rather, she ought to be asking herself and the Bible what Christ wants for her. If she is truly a born again believer then Christ is her Lord and master and His word (the Bible) is her final authority. The way you have explained it here is that she has made her wants (desires) in this situation the final authority. Unfortunately, what you say she wants is in direct contradiction of Christ’s word. The Bible says that all s*xual relationships outside the bonds of marriage are sinful (called sexual immorality, or fornication depending on the translation you use, see Rom. 1:20-32; 1 Cor 5:1-13; and 1 Thes. 4:1-8). So what you say she wants is incompatible with what Christ has commanded for His followers. Therefore, the real question this lady needs to answer is whether or not she is willing to submit her wants to Christ’s authority in her life. If she is unwilling to do so then she is not in right relationship with Christ and can not be so until she repents and begins to live according to His moral will as revealed in the Scriptures.

There is great error in your thinking here. This statement shows that, like your friend, you are allowing your personal experience to have authority over the clear teaching of God’s word. If you have made this error out of ignorance (not knowing what God’s word actually has to say regarding the issues) you can correct the error by studying the Bible and submitting to its teaching. However, if you have made this error simply as a result of following your own will (refusing to submit to the authority of God’s word even though you know what He says) then you have strayed from Him and need to repent, return within the boundary of His moral will as outlined in the Scriptures, and submit to His word.

That is correct. The child of God can not abide in sin, do as he/she pleases, ignore God’s moral will as outlined in the Scriptures, and remain in right relationship with his/her Savior. God’s word tells us, “Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy”(1 Pet. 1:13-16, NKJV). I am not judging her (or you) I am simply answering your questions by explaining what the Bible says regarding the issues. If you are feeling conviction that is from the Holy Spirit and is not because of judgment on my part.