Hypothetical Situation

You don't know for sure that there is/was no hope of reconciliation because you failed to respond biblically and walk through the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20). You are just responding here out of your personal experience and allowing it to take authority over what the Bible says. Sorry if you don't want to hear this but it is true nonetheless. Your friend dating and engaging in s*x with this other man is adultery because she is still legally married to her husband. How the new man may or may not treat her does not figure into the picture in regard to the sin of adultery that has taken place. If she is a believer and she openly admits to the church that she has been in an adulterous relationship then the only biblical response for the church is Matt. 18:15-20 with the goal of restoring her to right relationship with Christ and His church. If she refuses to repent and allow her future actions to determine if that repentance is genuine then the only outcome for the church is to treat her as an unbeliever. Show her the love of Christ, witness to her by sharing the gospel, and minister to her just as they would any lost pregnant lady in trouble. What the church can not do is wink at her sin and act as if nothing is wrong. Again, if she truly repented she will not continue in a s*xual relationship with this man until such a time that they can be legally married.

I agree both of these statements are correct and true. However, what have they to do with this discussion?

There is grave error in your thinking and your hermeneutics (method of interpretation and understanding of the text) regarding the above referenced passage of Scripture and your perspective on this situation.

The immediate context of the passage is that it followed right on the heels of Jesus’ teaching the multitudes about faith using many parables such as the mustard seed and many others (Mark 4:32-33). He spoke to the multitudes only in parables (Mark 4:34a). Then in private He explained all the parables to His disciples (Mark 4:34b). Then in Mark 35-40 He gave His disciples a very vivid real life example of the kind of faith He had been speaking about and revealed His deity by controlling the wind and the sea simply by His spoken word (Mark 4:41).

You have likened this passage to the situation under discussion when in fact the two have nothing in common or to do with one another. Note in the passage that the storm arose and the disciples were afraid. Yet, the Bible does not say that the storm arose because of some sin in their lives. Now, in the case under discussion the current metaphorical “storm” in your friend’s life is directly related to her sin of engaging in an adulterous s*xual relationship with a man while she was/is still married to her husband. The Lord did not send this metaphorical “storm” as a real life object lesson for her to learn to have complete faith in Him. Her decision to depart from the moral will of God revealed in His word and engage in sin resulted in the consequences (the metaphorical “storm” in her life) she now faces. That is not to say that the Lord can not use this time in her life to draw her closer to Him for His glory (Rom. 8:28).

Likewise, you are incorrect in stating that you believe that the “Lord is right there with her through every step of this” as if He was there with her giving His approval when she engaged in the sin of fornication and adultery. If she was/is truly his child He had to turn His face away from her in shame when she chose to depart from His moral will and engage in sin. He is Holy and because of His Holiness sin can not abide in His presence (see: http://www.probe.org/probe-answers-e-mail/theology/philosophy/how-can-an-omnipresent-god-be-around-sin-and-evil.html ). So because her actions are directly contrary to His moral will as revealed in the Scriptures it is an error to say that the Lord was right there with her as she engaged in sin (as if giving His approval). However, now you are correct in saying that during the difficult times she is experiencing He is right there wanting for her to cast her burden upon Him because He cares for her (1 Pet. 5:7). In order for her to do so she must humble herself before the Lord, repent of her sin, and turn to Him (1 Pet. 5:5-11).

 

You are correct in that God draws us close to His side when we suffer. However, He does not wink at our sin and act as if nothing is wrong or as if nothing has happened. When sin comes between us and God the only way to restore our relationship with Him is for us to humble ourselves, confess our sin, repent (turn away from the sinful behavior), and obey His word. If your friend wishes to be restored to right relationship with the Lord and His church she must do these things and as it has been explained to you she would have to end her sinful fornication and adultery with this other man. Then once her divorce is final she would be free to marry this man so as to avoid falling back into fornication (s*x outside the bonds of marriage).

If she has truly repented she will have broken off the s*xual relationship with this other man and will no longer engage in a s*xual relationship with him until her divorce is final and they are legally married. Otherwise her actions prove that she has not truly repented, turned away from the sinful act, because she willing returns to the same state of sinfulness.

Good. Now her actions since that time will indicate if her repentance was genuine. If it was she will not continue in a s*xual relationship with this other man.

This may well be true. However, there were biblical steps that you and she as believers ought to have taken to ensure that this was indeed the case. You both ought to have walked through the process of church discipline with your husbands. If they confessed their adultery, repented, and asked to reconcile it would have been your obligation as believers to trust in the power of the Holy Spirit and do so. If they had refused to listen and repent up to the point of being removed from the church (at least in your husband’s case because you say he claims to be a believer) it would have freed you from him completely (Matt. 5:31-32; 19:9; and 1 Cor. 7:13-15). I don’t know if the other lady’s husband professes to be a believer or not. However, 1 Cor. 7:13-15 applies equally.

I am not throwing stones at you or your friend. I am simply telling you what the Bible says about your situations based on the information you have provided. You are correct that God can and does bring good out of bad situations. However, you may need to do a bit more deep searching of your heart and then spend some time alone with God in confession and repentance in order to see yourself completely restored to right relationship with Him. I say that because some of the things you have posted here on the BB are contrary to the clear teaching of God’s word which indicates a relational problem.

 

You are speaking out of your personal experience and allowing it to have authority over God’s word. It may well be true that your husband wanted out of your marriage, committed adultery, and has no intention of reconciling. However, the Bible gives you the process in Matt. 18:15-20 for determining if this is true or not. You failed to follow God’s word in this respect. That does not mean that your husband’s adultery is no longer a valid reason for your divorce. It just means that you did not handle the situation biblically. Therefore, it appears that you have some unfinished business to do with God.

The problem is that she started dating this man and had s*x with him while she was/is still married to her husband. This is a sin on her part. Neither God nor His true church can wink at this sin and act as if nothing is wrong. As a believer she needs to address this issue with God. If she is truly repentant she will break off all s*xual relations with this other man until such a time that they are legally married. Since she has involved her church in this matter her actions in this regard bear witness as to whether or not she has truly repented of her sin with this man. Likewise, she has brought herself under the authority of the church and because of her admitted sinful behavior the church ought to begin the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20) with the goal of restoring her to right relationship with Christ and His church.

You may well be correct. However, your personal experience does not take final authority over God’s word. God’s word provides you with the process to determine whether or not your marriage is truly over (no hope of reconciliation). That is the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20) since you say that both your husband and you are believers. However, for some reason this process has not taken place. Therefore, since your divorce legal proceedings are now final it appears that you still have some unfinished business to do with the Lord regarding your failure to respond biblically to the situation.

 

The healthy do not need a doctor. The ill need a doctor. Is the church to deny access to the ill, or drive them away with derision?

Remember, "Do unto other as you would have them do to you."

 

Is the church to accept the sin and let her continue in adultery or are they to make a point based on God's Word that her open sin will not be tolerated?

 

After reading through all of this, I'm thankful that the SBC adopted the Resolution on Regenerate Church Membership last month. For those of you who don't like the idea of church discipline in this situation let me say a couple of things. The act of disfellowshiping with this lady over her sin is an act of love towards her. She needs to see the gravity of her sin and she needs to know that if she continues in unrepentant sin, then she probably ins't a believer. The act of church disciplilne should always have future restoration as it's goal. By allowing her to continue in the church as if everything is normal. Her sin is very public and the world will get that idea that sin doesn't matter. The blatent sinner, in this circumstance is seen as being more important than Christ having a spotless bride. This, my friends, is idolatry.
Another thing that bothers me is that this whole thing is being called a "mistake". No, it's not a mistake! It's SIN against a holy God.

 

Exactly

I totally agree, it is out of love to discipline one who is in unrepentant sin...the end goal is ALWAYS reconciliation!

 

1 Corinthians 7:10-11 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.

How much clearer does it need to be?

This is a very disturbing thread.

We have gone so far as to have someone say: I truly don't see why sex is considered the BIG bugaboo it is by some people. People who are innocent victims do have every right to move on with their lives. They are no longer bound to an unfaithful spouse.

Sex is a "BIG bugaboo" because God said it was. Innocent people moving on with their lives does not entail sex outside of marriage. Being no longer bound to an unfaithful spouse does not entitle one to sex outside of marriage. The reason many divorces take place is because sex is not a "BIG bugaboo" to people. They think it is their tool to use as they see fit, rather than keeping it in the bounds of God's word.

We have here the defense of a woman who appears (if the story is correct) to be living in willful open sin without repentance. How can any believer defend such a person? Why can't we love her enough to say what God says and beg her to be reconciled to God?

I have never seen more unloving people than those who will defend this woman and refuse to call her to repentance and grace in God.

 

If a few posters can cause you to turn from your faith, then your faith is too weak. Is your faith in the Baptist Church or is it in the Heavenly Father? If it is in the Heavenly Father, let me suggest two things:

1. Live by the standards set forth in His Word. We can't say, "I don't like that part so I refuse to live by it." Don't compromise with the world.

2. Keep your focus on the Father and off the circumstances.

While I may not agree with everything that was said in this thread, most of it is, IMO, good, godly advice.

One more thing. No amount of excuses will take away our responsibility to be obedient to God's Word. God's Word is the standard. It is not a book of suggestions. Our responsibility as Believers is to correct our actions (and motives) so that they line up with the Word. Where we are in error, we are to confess, repent, ask for forgiveness and press on honoring God with our lives. Don't get sidetracked. Keep you eyes on Jesus and follow His Word.

 

So you want to go join a group that might "accept" your sin and past that God will allow it and overlook the facts of the Bible? Being a Christian and living right will never come easy walking in the path of the flesh. What will come easy is the "worldly satisfaction" of being approved by some group of people that call themselves Christians. That is what is wrong with the people of America today. Satan has created all these sub-denominations that accepts such sin and they all want to claim they are followers of Jesus. They suggest that Jesus is a liar, hypocrite, and coming to earth to die for our sins is completely a fable. Ma'am, I strongly urge you to watch your step.

And just exactly what did you do about that? You turned around and messed up just like he did! I believe without making it public we can both assume what he is saying about you, and then holding that as his reason not to get back with you. It's a big circle that will never end 'til someone takes the advice of the Bible and other Christians.... and puts it into action!

Scripture, please?

So you believe striving to be like Jesus is wrong?

Yes, because the church told you to leave.

This speaks contrary to the Bible's teachings. Therefore, I can not believe this. I am unconvinced.

"Otherwise", huh? He DID NOT close the door on your marriage. Give me scripture that God EVER closed the door on a marriage?! Do you think that is what He wants? You are still married to this man until you or he dies. If you marry another man in your so-called awesome awaiting relationship, you'll have TWO husbands until they either die.

Wait a minute -- you said God did. DO NOT get confused what God allows to happen and what man allows to happen. I think the root of your problem lies somewhere within here.

Throw that soggy newspaper down and come to reality. So what if he is listed as the father? So what if those divorce papers says you're divorced? The truth prevails in the eyes of God; not paper.

No, He made you to live with your husband/wife until death do you part, not to throw them out when you get tired of them.

Read your Bible and follow it. Things will get a lot easier to understand and people will seem a lot less judgemental when you do so. Do not do what "seems" right to you; do what IS right to God.

 

Jesus said if you love Me keep my commands. According to Jesus, how willing we are to live scripture, becoming more Christlike tells how much we love Him. When we want it our way and not God's we are in disobedience. God created marriage, it pictures Christ's relationship with the church, no closed doors, and no scripture to teach us any such thing. A closed door on a marriage and relationships with other men is man made not God made, for the purpose to make some feel better about their sin, as if God has excused their sin. Nope, sorry, you can not continue in a sin and say, 'I have repented' repenting is a turning away from that sin, has there beena turning away? No. What there has been is a 'I love my sin so much I want to wallow in it'. If one wants to continue in their sin because they love it so much, they show they love Jesus even less.
If you do not like truth and want real scripture, not twisted, then this might be the wrong place to be. Maybe you need a church that approves sin, and sees no use in living Christlike, with a divorced pastor who approves divorce.

 

I find myself saying amen to one your posts again.

 

I am sorry you feel that way. That was never my intent. I have only sought to provide you with godly biblical Christian counsel. Remember, I am not judging you I am simply telling you what God’s word has to say about the issues you have raise. If you are feeling conviction that comes from the Holy Spirit and by the power of God’s word. So you need to do some deep heart searching and spend some time alone with the Lord making sure that your life lines up with His word.

Again, I am sorry you feel that way when all I have tried to do is provide you with godly biblical Christian counsel. For the most part the BB is a conservative Baptist message board. As such we hold a very high view of the Scriptures. They are our final authority in all matters of faith and practice.

As I repeatedly pointed out in my previous posts this may well be true. However, when his adultery first became known you had a responsibility as a believer to respond biblically. Your response should have followed the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20) since you say that your ex-husband claims to be a believer as well. Yet, for whatever reason church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20) did not take place. This does not mean that your divorce on the grounds of his adultery is not valid according to Deut. 24:1-4; Matt. 5:31-32, 19:9; and 1 Cor. 7:13-15. However, it does mean that you failed to respond to the situation biblically. Therefore, it appears that you have some unfinished business between you and the Lord regarding the way you did respond.

I never said such a thing and I do not agree with that interpretation of the Scriptures because it fails to adequately deal with the “no longer under bondage” passage in 1 Cor. 7:15.

Using the literal, historical, grammatical reading and understanding of the Bible is the only hermeneutical method that ensures proper translation from the original languages, exegesis, and interpretation of the text. To do otherwise is to slide into Theological liberalism.

No there is not. The Bible is very clear in its teaching, particularly when one takes the time to learn the biblical languages, the proper way to apply sound hermeneutical principles, and solid exegesis of the text. Also one must learn that we all approach the Bible with certain presuppositions. One must learn to recognize one’s presuppositions, set them aside, and allow the text of the whole Bible to speak for itself. You can not make the Bible say things that the Holy Spirit never intended for it to say when He inspired the writing of the text.

Again, I am sorry if you feel this way. All I have attempted to do is answer your questions and provide you with godly biblical Christian counsel.

This speaks poorly of your church. They failed you both right at the point when you needed them most. Did either you or your husband ask a small group of mature believers and the church elders (pastors) for assistance in walking you through the process of Matt. 18:15-20 in an attempt to reconcile your marriage? If not, you bear some responsibility here as well (it is not completely the church’s fault).

As the innocent party, being that it was your husband who committed adultery, this is exactly what should have happened. However, you and the church ought to have pursued the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20) regarding your husband’s adultery and for whatever reason this did not happen.

Then you have not been part of a solid Bible believing church that practices biblical church discipline as outlined in Matt. 18:15-20. It is very biblical, designed by God for the purpose of reconciliation when a believer has fallen into unrepentant sin, and is used to keep a pure and spotless bride (the church) awaiting the return of the Lord.

This may well be true. However, the only biblical way for either of you to know for sure is to walk through the steps of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20) with your husbands before proceeding with divorce. I do not know if this other lady’s husband professes to be a born again Christian or not. However, if he is not a believer then 1 Cor 7:13-15 still applies and if he left her she is no longer under bondage and free to divorce him. This does not mean that she is free to engage in a s*xual relationship with another man before she is legally divorced and the same is true regarding s*x outside the bonds of marriage.

Again, you are speaking out of your personal experience and allowing it to take authority over God’s word. God’s word provides the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20). If you had followed God’s word here and at the end of the process your husband would have refused to listen, repent, and reconcile. Then you could make the above quoted claim with confidence based on the authority of God’s word. Again, the failure to do so does not invalidate your husband’s adultery and your subsequent divorce. It just means that you did not respond to the situation biblically. Therefore, it appears that you have some unfinished business to do with God regarding how you did respond in this situation.

This all may well be true. However, it still does not negate the fact that you failed to respond biblically to your husband’s adultery (since he is supposed to be a believer) by walking him through the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20). Again, the failure to do so does not invalidate your husband’s adultery and your subsequent divorce. It just means that you did not respond to the situation biblically. Therefore, it appears that you have some unfinished business to do with God regarding how you did respond in this situation.

Okay, then you should not have a problem with a mature brother in Christ answering your questions with solid biblical counsel and pointing out where it appears that you need to do some business alone with the Lord.

Again, I never said that you must remain single and I have explained why above. However, you should not have started “dating” while you were still legally married to your husband. This is especially true since you did not go through the process of church discipline (Matt. 18:15-20) with the goal of reconciliation with your husband. Again, the failure to do so does not invalidate your husband’s adultery and your subsequent divorce. It just means that you did not respond to the situation biblically. Therefore, it appears that you have some unfinished business to do with God regarding how you did respond in this situation and the fact that you entered into a relationship with another man while still legally married to your husband. I am not trying to be mean, hurtful, or judgmental. I am simply answering your questions and comments with godly counsel from the Scriptures. If this causes you pain then just maybe the Holy Spirit is working through the power of His word and you need to address the situation alone with the Lord.

 

God never closes the door on a marriage! Unrepentant people, the unsaved, or babes in Christ do that. Their is no scripture (that I know of) that forbids separation, but the scripture definitely forbids divorce and adultery.

Too many people try to make Scripture gray that they come away confused while trying to make people accept their sin. Then they look for a church that agrees with them (tickles their ears) and they join, whether it is a scriptural church or not makes no difference to them.

And the Scriptures are black and white...not gray.

There is no such thing as taking the Bible too literally. It should be the Christian's final authority.

God said it and I believe it!

Whether anyone else believes it or not, that doesn't change the fact that it was, is, and always will be the Word of God and true.

God also does not like for his children to waver between right and wrong. He said he would spew them out of His mouth if they were lukewarm (straddling the fence).

 

I don't know... There is a bunch of red writing in the NT part of my Bible.:wavey: :laugh:

 

All right, BB, don't confuse me with facts! :laugh:

 

Let's see--last time I checked my Bible saved people could still sin.

So let's not judge this woman's salvation. She may indeed be a sinning believer.

But there is something she needs to understand: when saved people choose to sin, there is a price to pay. And in this case, being welcomed and accepted at church WHILE continuing the sin is part of that price.

It needs to be lovingly, gently, made abundantly clear to her that she faces some serious choices. She can choose to continue in sin and face discipline (whether formal or just folks avoiding her, etc.) She can repent and will still face some level of consequences. (Again, she would not be my first choice to teach teen girls, for example. Not for quite some time.)

It need not be judgemental or mean. But it does need to be clear.

And that is not a bit unloving.

And privately some of the really strong but really loving ladies need to befriend her and take her under their wing.

 

I do not judge anyone's salvation. I did not say that she was unsaved. If you reread my post, I was not talking about anyone specific.

What I did state was that when a person continues in known sin, they could be unsaved, unrepentant, or a babe in Christ. I will add a back slider to that list.

The problem with your suggestion is that she is looking for someone to agree with her, and will not listen if they do not, and I doubt there are any women on this board who would agree that adultery is all right...

That is why she posted out here in an open forum. If she wanted to make friends and keep this private, she would have posted it in the WPF where there are a bunch of lovely ladies that would be happy to befriend her, but they will not compromise the Word of God to do it...

I have tried not to be judgmental or mean, but I fear that anyone who disagrees with her point of view is put into that category (by her).

If quoting Scripture is judgmental and mean, then I plead guilty.

A sinner saved by grace,
§ue

 

Hello
You come onto the BB for help proclaiming you are a Christian. Yet now you are actually promoting adultery, imho.

Christians sin.
Sometimes even grevious sins like adutlery imo, but they feel the Lord chastizing them for it. Others here will say a Christian cannot sin in this manner. I believe everyone on the BB, or 90% at least will agree that a saved person will feel the Lord chastizing them for committing adultery. You have not displayed this. [You are not allowed to question the salvation of a fellow BB user.]

Christians know right from wrong, even as they sin.
Christians do not openly promote sins which result in death and expect other Christians to coddle them while they willfully disobey God. You are the first person I have encountered who has claimed to be Christian yet expected this treatment.

It sounds like the Holy Spirit is convicting you right now. You feel frustrated and sad due to these posts, a "second class citizen". I pray you feel much worse so he can use your pain to draw you nearer to him. Now is a great time to talk to your Pastor or a Pastoral Staff member. I'll pray for you This is an exciting time for you.

Here are more verses which come to mind-


“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to
carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding
to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native
language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44)

1 Cor 10:8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.

"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death." James 1:13


Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Sprit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's." 1 Corinthians 6:13


"My son, give me your heart, and let your eyes observe My ways. For a harlot is a deep pit, and a seductress is a narrow well. She also lies in wait as for a victim, and increases the unfaithful among men." Proverbs 23:26

"For the commandment is a lamp, and the law is light; reproofs of instruction are the way of life, to keep you from the evil woman, from the flattering tongue of a seductress, do not lust after her beauty in your heart, nor let her allure you with her eyelids


"Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been proved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him." (James 1:12)

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”