I am a Baptist!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ReformedBaptist, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Depending on who you say that to, it could be offensive. Without raising points and issue, I wanted to share something I read tonight that I appreciated very much. I will preface it with a quote from Arthur Pink. Feel free to comment...it is a bit long.

    Arthur W. Pink wrote, "This is the name which God gave to the first man who He called and commissioned to do any baptizing. He named him ‘John the Baptist.’ Hence, real Baptists have no reason to be ashamed of or to apologize for the Scriptural name they bear." "The Churches of God" Studies in the Scriptures (Dec., 1927). Page 5.



    During the past hundred years there has been a growing effort on the part of some professional Baptist scholars to redefine the Baptist faith and Baptist history. Beginning from Enlightenment, anti-supernaturalistic presuppositions, reading the Bible and church history through the spectacles of a "critical/scientific" methodology, influenced by the prestige of worldly religious establishments and their own ambition for authority and respectability, many modern Baptist scholars have hypothesized a complete dichotomy between the teaching of Scripture and the facts of history.

    As a result the public has, once again, been "assured" of the findings of scientific investigation, that is, we have been assured that modern Baptists are a "post-Reformation" novelty and have absolutely no connection with the Anabaptists of the Reformation era or the older, pre-Reformation evangelical movements. Operating from this perspective many modern Baptist historians decided several decades ago that Baptists were really just another form of Protestant that arose during the Reformation era.

    While we should appreciate the genuine dedication of serious historians as well as their discovery and use of physical evidence in historical studies, we should not forget the ever-present "personal bias" of every historian, the "unavoidable limitations" of the scientific method and the ultimate authority of God’s Word. Above all else, Baptists dare not forget that the Word of God cannot be held hostage by human historiography! The most basic premise of every Bible believer is the existence and sovereignty of the Supernatural God and the ultimate authority of His Word over all things.

    This Biblical authority calls upon us to form a world-view, to get our ideas of origins, of the universe, of God, of man, of life and of time (past, present and future) from the revelation contained in God’s Word. Hence, our over-all understanding of world history (and thus of church history) must be ultimately controlled by the teaching contained in the Bible. All academic historical study must therefore be judged by Scripture and not vice versa. Unless we accept the secular, liberal view of the Bible, which divorces what the Bible records from all historical reality, then Baptists are called upon by their own view of ultimate Biblical authority to make a decision - either we must interpret history in the light of what the Bible teaches OR we must interpret the Bible in the light of a secular theory of history and its interpretation of available physical evidence.

    We believe that the truth of God’s existence, of the Gospel, of Christ’s resurrection, the Holy Spirit’s ministry, and the continual existence of Christ’s churches throughout history does not depend upon the discovery of historical, physical evidence or the opinions of religious scholars. These things are true regardless of the possession or non-possession of physical evidence and despite all scholarly opinion to the contrary. These things are true because they are clearly revealed in Scripture. Hence, our views of the nature of Baptist identity, Baptist history and the Baptist heritage must be shaped Biblically and Theologically. The foundations of both Christian Theology and Christian History are built upon the exegesis of Scripture.

    We do not define Baptist identity by what we see around us in the world today nor by what we see in the historical record of the past. If Scripture is the infallible standard by which truth is established, then Baptist identity is defined by what we see in the person, principles & practice of the first Baptist, the one first commissioned to practice Christian Immersion, and by what we see in those who came to his baptism, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles. The Scriptural examples of these first Baptists is that by which all other ideas of Baptist identity are to be judged. All that history can do is provide some evidence as to how true or how false modern Baptists have been to that original Biblical identity.

    http://www.standardbearer.org/Content.aspx?ID=3
     
  2. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    RB, I believe in the promise of Jesus:

    "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."

    I'm interested in what Scripture says.
     
  3. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    And this means what?
     
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,628
    Likes Received:
    158
    Glad you ask. :laugh:

    I agree with Elton Trueblood's opinon on this passage. It is well known that Jesus used a play on words and at the time he spoke these words Peter was not a rock, but shifting sand. So, to me a deeper truth is that Jesus was saying, "It is on the average, shifting sand person, that I will have to depend on to spread my message once I am not with you. And it is true, it is the shifting sand people, just like all of us that Christ depends.

    Trueblood wrote an excellent little book entitled The Humor of Christ." I highly recommend it.
     
    #4 Crabtownboy, Apr 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2008
  5. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Well, I was asking what TC meant by quoting that Scripture. But I had to reply to your post because I get the impression that you believe Christ is depending on people, what you call shifting sand people, for the foundation of His Church? Say it ain't so!
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    321
    Just a wild guess but the Scripture indicates that there is other criteria than being a Baptist to receive the gift of eternal life or rejection thereof.

    Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


    Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    That is not to say that being a Baptist is a bad thing.

    The Baptist distinctives are scriptural and that was/is the attraction for me.

    After I left the Church of Rome, I floundered around in the Churches of the Reformation (Lutheran, etc) but biblical baptism, local church autonomy, the ordinances, etc, were what influenced my choice.

    Forty plus years and counting since my wife and I were baptised in Tremont Temple Baptist Church (on the same day).

    She is a former Mormon.


    HankD​
     
  7. PreachTREE

    PreachTREE
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't get Pink's point. The whole church could trace their heritage back to John the Baptist and the Jordan river. The whole church immersed their members.

    Am I missing something?
     
  8. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Nope. The principles beginning with John's baptism that got him called "the Baptist" because of the mode of baptism by immersion has been practiced from that day until now, but not by all. The introduction of infant baptism, et. came later.
     
  9. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not so. Jesus built the church upon Himself and not on sinful people. He is the ONLY solid Rock upon which to build. He is the Cornerstone that holds it all together.
     
  10. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Amen! :jesus:
     
  11. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,628
    Likes Received:
    158
    What I am saying is that Christ trusted people, like Peter, who was not a rock at that time, but shifting sand. He trusts us to carry his message to the world. We all are shifting sand to some degree, some more so than others. But none of us are solid rocks like Christ was.
     
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    RB, I truly sorry that I took so long to reply. I actually forgot this thread. Sorry about that.

    Now to your question:

    Well, I believe the church of our Lord has always been around since its inception, and it will be around until the Lord returns to be glorified in her.

    I don't believe in the notion that somehow, somewhere in church history, the church went into a coma.
     
  13. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    45
    A. W. Pink was a Baptist who could not find a single Baptist church in the world in which he was comfortable being a member!
     
  14. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    How do you know? Not that I disagree, because I don't know, but where did you learn this?
     
  15. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Does this mean to you that the advance of the Gospel in the world depends on people?
     
  16. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,628
    Likes Received:
    158
    Who will preach and teach if it is the people, the people of Christ?
     
  17. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    321
    Actually there is a baptism which we have that does not come from John the Baptist:

    Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    HankD​
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    That's not what I asked. Here you refer to the means, but I am asking, basically, on whose shoulders rest the advance of the Gospel, God or men?
     
  19. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Tis why there are a doctrines of baptisms...but we are referring to water baptism.
     
  20. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,628
    Likes Received:
    158
    God has entrusted it to us to do so. Christ commanded us to do so when he gave his last great command, "Go ye into all the world................" If he had not entrusted this task to we humans there would be no need for preachers, missionaries, etc. It would be as some Calvinists argued against missionaries, "If God wants them saved he will save them."

    And in Romans it says: How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? (Romans 10:14-15).
     
    #20 Crabtownboy, Apr 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2008

Share This Page

Loading...