I Am a Modernist

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Jul 1, 2001.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    I am a "Modernist" and cannot and choose not to change. That is the broad philosophical category which began with the Renaissance and continued up through my generation.

    I see things in light of empirical evidence, logic, absolutes, truth, etc. I am also a Theist (since I believe in a sovereign God who established these truths).

    But all of my students are "Post Modernists" whose beliefs have morphed into a new paradigm. They base their thinking and lives upon feeling and senses over logic and evidence. They allow me to believe what I want, but react to all truth and absolutes. "Okay for you, but not for me", they say.

    Their friends and relationships mean more than words in a dusty book of truth their parents accepted without question.

    I want to reach across this philosophical divide and begin to preach Christ NOT from logic or Greek or absolutes -- maybe not mentioning the blood, etc -- but talk about Christ as a "relationship", as a "friend".

    Need some help and hope good discussion that will end up being beneficial to the Church. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    See those "Feeling", "Friends" and "Relationship" words? Know HIM (not just facts about Him). Know the POWER of the resurrection (not the facts to pass a theology exam). FELLOWSHIP with His suffering.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Bob Landis

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    Post Modernist always sounded to me like "Christian socialism".
     
  3. swaimj

    swaimj
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    Dr. Bob, I have been witnessing to a gal I work with for several months now. She is a child of post-modernism of about 22. I have OFFENDED her several times and she let me have it! "How can you think that you are the only one who is right? Who do you think you are?" she says. I stopped trying to witness for a few weeks, just talk about innocuous stuff. Last night, she started talking about an argument she had with a realtor who insulted her. She was writing a nasty letter to his boss because of his actions. She started asking me if it was right to confront him over what he had done. That opened the door to talk to her about forgiveness and the spirit with which we should approach others when they wrong us. I've also had a previous conversation with her about her difficult relationship with her father and that led to talk about forgiveness. So, through a door different from the one I was looking for I have been able to talk to her about Jesus. We have to get to know people well enough to find that window of opportunity through which they can be reached. I am no expert on this, but I think the Spirit is leading me to be a witness to her and a better witness overall. Just thought I'd share my experience.
     
  4. fwbbcflames

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    Dr. Bob,

    You just said what one of my teachers at Bible College took a week of chapel to explain. He used art to explain post modernist. A lot of modern art is abstract, he said that this conveys the felling part of "pm". He in the last day almost said word for word what you said in your last statement. I think if more people my age would realize this is truth, my generation would be better off. ;)
     
  5. Larry

    Larry
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    Bob,

    I'm confused about your statement " I see things in light of empirical evidence, logic, absolutes, truth, etc."

    Correct me if I'm wrong, you also teach your students that we don’t have an error free Bible…. There is no Bible that we can take to be absolute because all Bibles have errors.

    What are they left to believe? Somewhere amongst the vast volumes of Greek and Hebrew texts lies the absolute truth BUT because we don’t have absolute knowledge as to what text is the absolute true text, we must use the text that we feel is the most logical, we have to consider all the possible definitions for each particular word and choose the word that we sense is correct.

    I wouldn't bother asking if I didn’t have some respect for you but I don't see how you can come up with such purely brilliant and seemingly authoritative answers, like you did in the post John 3:5 about a weak ago, and at the same time not have any Bible version that you consider to be absolute.

    Perhaps that’s why they say "Okay for you, but not for me"
     
  6. Will

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    Bob,

    Respectfully, I believe that what you have proposed doing is impossible. Without absolute truth as a possibility there is no point in starting. Relativism as manifested in Postmodernism is a natural result of the Enlightment.

    David Hume could be called the father of relativism, he is still studied and very influential in our universities today. Yet we need to combat this thinking like the great Christian scholar and pastor who refuted him so effectively, Thomas Reid, who is barely studied today. Reid showed logically that without accepting the principles of reason and causality, there is no pointing in any discussion. He showed Hume to be self-defeating.

    For instance Hume's contention that, "one cannot speak confidently about God," is self defeating. After all in his statement he is confidently speaking about God.

    Likewise you can show relativists that the statement, "I accept all belief systems," is silly. Simple disagreement from yourself proves it false. Then they can't accept your belief system and all others.

    Another often used phrase is "I only belief what I can test empirically." Again self defeating, after all that statement which is a belief which can never be empirically tested.

    I believe that our students need to be taught logic and critical thinking skills. After all if there is no truth to be found, why listen to the person espousing such non-truth. It make any study on conversation a non-starter.
     
  7. bro dave

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    Dr. Bob: and anyone else interested. Knowing Jesus has nothing to do with logic, imperical data, or any other intellectual garbage which we tend to fill our minds with. It has to do with love and building a love relationship with him based on faith (believing what you cannot see, hear, taste, touch, or smell) the five senses are not involved. only your heart and spirit can bring you into that relationship because all truth of God comes thru the spirit by devine revelation from the Holy Spirit.
    to quote Henry Blackaby from 'Experiencing God' "God persues a love relationship with you"

    in His service
     
  8. John Wells

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    I liked and recommend Paul's approach: For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. (1 Cor 1:17 NIV)
     
  9. Ransom

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    bro dave said:

    Knowing Jesus has nothing to do with logic . . .
    It has to do with love . . .


    If knowing Jesus has nothing to do with logic or other "intellectual garbage," as you put it, how come you could only make your case using a logical construction (antithesis)?

    Posts that use logic to discredit logic are self-defeating.

    All the rules of logic are simply applications of the principle of antithesis, that two contradictory ideas cannot simultaneously be true. God is a rational being, and he created us as rational beings. Imagine trying to communicate in a world where something could both be true and false at the same time. It would be impossible. It is only because logic is true that we can make any sense out of language and argument at all!
     
  10. Will

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    Ransom,

    Outstanding post. The argument espoused, as you pointed out, is self-defeating. We of course use logic. Also, Paul told us to "test everything."
     

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