I am angry beyond words

I am in an absolute rage that has been building for
a while and is in full bloom. I attended a holiness-
Arminian church for years, and when I left it, I
shook the dust from my feet with disdain, glad to
be free and to drink from a new, clean fountaiin,
to wash away the bitter taste in my mouth -- not
because it was Arminian by any means but
because of my perception of the corruption there.

Well, corruption? I had no idea of its exrtent until
this week, and I doubt I will ever have a clear
concept this side of eternity.

The daughter of a dear friend told me many things
that I saw yet did not understand -- things so
corrupt and evil that I am shaking in anger, that
such could be done by a man who claimed to be
a minister of the Gospel, who led a people, who
was trusted, lifted up, coddled by that
organization, his evil acts hidden. I knew he had
touched me inappropriately, but I had made
excuses for him, not willing to believe the truth.
Now, I know: he had no excuses.

Things went on there, and we turned away, so
that we would not see and thus be responsible to
respond.

In this holiness church, my children were told
by a young married couple, who were SS
teachers, that sex outside of marriage was all
right, as long as they did marry.

I am completely blown away by my own
blindness and my determination to look the other
way and to make excuses for the obvious.

Be back.

 

Hi, Yelsew. Just so that you will know, I have
decided to deal with this by not dealing with it any
more, after much thought and prayer.

My note yesterday was interrupted by a dear
pastor I once had in that church, He was
deliberately pushed out of that church, and
conversing with his reminded me that we do not
have to deal with those people anymore, except
for those with whom we have chosen to remain
friends, because they are not like the others. For
that reason, I can let this whole thing go.

Thank you for your response.

 

Thank you, OliveBranch. I answered your note,
but to your name. May our God lift you up, may
He give you unmoveable peace.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I have, over the last days, been physically sick over
what I had to face with two friends because of the
situation eluded to here. What makes me most ill
is that private messages received tell me that what
happened is not unique.

I put my note here because what happened for me
was in a holiness-Aminian church, and this is my
concern. Such belief systems put so much
emphasis upon "Christian perfection" that they
make it difficult for one, when they fail, to
acknowledge that they have done anything wrong,
so they go in hiding their sin, and it festers, grows,
and multiplies into significant horrible sins which
involve other members of the congregation, who
are used in the worst of ways. And it is the
leaders doing it!!!

God, HELP US!! My heart is shredded for these
people! Sometimes, we say litely, "Lord, come
quickly," but if He waits much longer, how much
more will His name be trampled by those who
claim to lead the people in His name?

People rail against the Catholic church for
indiscretions, but they are Not Alone -- not even
on Protestant best days. There is an ugliness
that should shock us to the bone, sending us to
our knees in cries for forgiveness for those with
His name on their signs.

When a Calvinist sins, most are taught to acknow-
ledge the sin, repent, and seek forgiveness. I am
still somewhat new to Calvinism. Is this right?
I am still not sure how most Arminians handle
this, but I would like to know.

But the holiness-Arminians make it very hard on
their people: one sin, and they have lost their
salvation. What I have watched this breed is a
whole lot of people who learn to close their eyes
to their own sins and those in their churches,
leaving these sins to fester, growing infectuous
tenacles that entangle and drown those around
them. They cannot admit their sins, because the
churches make it too hard -- they must be saved
again and again, and it is a shame, embarrassing.

Unforgiven sin does not just go away, people! It
must be eradicated by your acknowledgement
of it before the Savior and your turning from it.
When are you going to see this and act upon it?
You are dragging the Name of my God through
your mud; you are lying against the Holy Spirit;
you are taking His Name in vain in the worst of
ways! This has got to end.

We have got to pray for the people who do this,
because not only can I not see how their claims
of salvation can be genuine, but they are dragging
down the whole Cause with them. Something
has got to change. God, help us.

 

gb94344 --

Thank you. You are right, of course.

- - - - - - - - -

Massdak --

Yes, it does have an online doctrinal statement --
I think. I can check. And no, it is not Charismatic.

I must say, though, I have had some time now to
deal with what I was told, and have drawn some
conclusions. While I am in no mood to continue
thinking that what this particular pastor did to me
was done in innocense, I cannot, in my own mind,
allow myself to think that what I was told by this
friend's daughter happened as she believes.

Looking back at the incidents from this side of
them, without the naivette of being young, I can
see that things happened that should not have,
but I cannot accept that they were as bad as I
was told. There must be some other explanation.

Perhaps I am back in denial, perhaps not, but my
friend died from this incident and is not here to
tell me what happened from her perspective. For
this reason, I am letting it go. The main reason I
can let it go is that I do not have to deal wth these
people anymore, except for the very few friends
still going there and one in-law family member.

Thank our God!!

 

Hi, Massdak. If I find it, I will send it to you
privately. I have no wish to drag these people
through the mud I have put on here, leaving their
name off. They must have enough challenges
without that.

You don't know where that is?!? :-D It is a
combination of the states I have lived in. Born
in California, I moved first to Mississippi in '58,
Kentucky in '62, Missouri in '62, Minnesota in '69,
Maryland in '70, Minnesota in '71, California in '83,
and Washinton in '88. Entirely to much movin for
my taste. I hope that I never have to move again.

 

Initially, I did, but I learned on BB that they are
not good representatives of Arminianism.
Holiness-Arminianism is apparently a completely
different breed. As a result of my experiences
there, admittedly, I have rejected Arminianism but
not its people. My husband is now Arminian, at
least to a point, but he is no longer holiness-
Arminian.

Through my last years there, there was no greater
proof of Calvinism than were these people who so
soundly decried it. If it had not been so sad, it
would have been amusing.

As I said, I still love the people; I just do not accept
Arminian doctrine. Further, I have known some very
wonderful representatives of the doctrine.

 

By the way, Michael, can you tell me how real
Arminians handle sin? For example, let's say that
I gossip about a fellow believer. Later, I feel bad
about that. How would a real Arminian handle this,
in full? Is this considered a sin? What would the
Arminian believer do about it?