I Am For Health Care... but, against taking my plan away!!!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by righteousdude2, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    I don't believe that being an American citizen entitles you to health-insurance. However, I do believe that America should have something like Medicare and Medicaid for everyone who needs medical assistance and can't afford it!

    The problem I have with this plan, as it is currently written, is that it stands to take my retirement plan away from me, and replace it with some seriously stripped down version of health-care that will actually cost me more for co-pays, medicine, and in turn get me inferior medical treatment by limiting my use of specialists.

    I would vote for a plan that doesn't interfere with my plan, but, that is not the case, and I have no other option than to hope and pray that even if the bill is passed through reconciliation, it will be repealed and over-turned once the imbalance of power is turned back over to the Conservatives.

    Some of you don't understand, or, feel my anger when it comes to this plan being crammed down my throat. You don't have to agree with me, but, I ask that you understand that, just as it isn't fair for those without insurance to not have it available, it isn't fair for this president to do something so large and sweeping without the support of the majority of Americans. Like so many others, I worked many years, making below average pay, with the promise of "great" medical perks upon my retirement, and it just isn't fair that on the backs of those who can't pay for insurance, I will lose my hard earned perks.

    This may be life, but, it is as unfair to me, as having no insurance plan available at all is to the poor. I guess they come out the winner in this round of the battle to socialize medicine. But, I don't think the battle is over. I am holding to hope that those with a more clear mind will come to DC and repeal this bad law before it ruins my life.

    :wavey: Here's a suggestion Mr. President: The referendum for health care reform should be on the ballot, and voted on this November. The reason I believe this has to do with all of the good and bad it stands to do for Americans. If this bill were voted on, it would be something that all of us could at least feel we had our say on. Win, lose or draw, I think people would be ready to accept the outcome of such a costly, sweeping bill. After all, that is what a democracy does best. Vote. When something with so much controversy and potential cost is brought before the people, it should be given to the people to vote on.

    Like we did in California with the right for gays to marry, it was such a controversial bill, it required a general election vote to be passed as a state law.

    We need a general election vote on this law, because NO ONE in America can TRUST their elected politicians to do what is best for them.
    :thumbs:

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
    #1 righteousdude2, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2010
  2. donnA

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    I would like to see help for people who absoutely can not afford it, but not government managed health care(as in they decide if you need medications instead of your doctor, you and doctor decide health care), and people who already have health care would keep what they have, without the governemets interference.
     
  3. Magnetic Poles

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    No one has suggested the government will prescribe treatment except righties attempts to scare people. Today it is up to your insurance company. Many folks have treatment denied by the insurance companies bean counting death panels. We need to let the doctor take charge in consultation with his or her patient.
     
  4. Gold Dragon

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    Your thoughts sounds pretty much like what Obama's plan does.
     
  5. targus

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    Execpt the bill sets up "advisory panels" - so yes the government will be in the business of prescribing - or more accurately - denying treatment.

    And a big difference between that and my current health insurance plan is that if I don't like what my insurance company does I can choose to change companies.
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

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  7. targus

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    If that is true - and it is a big if - then it is only a matter of time until the Obama plan starts forcing other plans off the market.

    After all the ultimate goal here is to get everybody on the public option - is it not.
     
  8. Gold Dragon

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    According to those who oppose the plan.

    I think the ultimate goal would be to have competitive public and private options that are able to effectively meet the needs of its clients, including those who are not profitable to cover.
     
  9. Paul3144

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    You do realize that there is no public option in the current bill?
     
  10. Ivon Denosovich

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    Hello, righteousdude2. I read your post and like your generally populist take. However I can't get past the first two sentences:

    It *sounds* like you both believe and disbelieve that health care is an entitlement Americans should have. But maybe it's just the way I'm reading it.:wavey:
     
  11. matt wade

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    He just doesn't believe those "rich" people should get health care, since they can afford it. He believes that people who work hard for their money should pay for lazy bums health insurance.
     
  12. Ivon Denosovich

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    Well, if that be true then he's no supporter of Universal Health Care which does include the rich. And speaking of, I've yet to hear a logical reason why middle class people should be taxed to buy insurance for the wealthiest amongst us. I can sympathize with some claims to assistance but not the gross overreach of UHC's extending benefits to millionaires and billionaire's via the public dole.
     
  13. Gold Dragon

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    Thanks for the tip. There are two bills being discussed.

    "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590)" passed by the Senate and is slated for discussion by the House doesn't have the public option.

    "The Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962)" that was passed by the House and is slated for discussion by the Senate does have the public option.
     
  14. righteousdude2

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    A Big AMEN to Your Comment...

    :type:
    AMEN

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul
     
  15. righteousdude2

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    That is Exactly What My Retirement Plan Plans to Do...

    As a state of California retired employee, I am under PERS, and they have supported Obama's plan all along. Their communications to retirees tell us that it will save the retirement fund billions of dollars a year to move all retirees to the federal plan. That is why I am opposed to the government plan. I lose my "Buick" plan [not quite a Cadillac plan:laugh:].

    Pastor Paul
     
  16. righteousdude2

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    Maybe This Will Help Clear it Up...

    I simply believe, that our country needs a "safety net" for those who fall through the cracks in this society. I don't believe, and I can't emphasize this enough, I don't believe that anyone is entitled to insurance paid for by those who work hard to earn a living. Those who lay around and have baby, after baby are not entitled to insurance. Let them get off their rear-ends and earn their insurance coverage. I worked for everything I have[and it ain't much], and it didn't kill me, and it won't kill the general population which includes my 40 year old daughter who has been on perpetual SSI since she turned 21. Neat trick, if you can do it, and she has found a way to get around the system. She believes that society [you], the government [Obama], and me[her dad] owe her big time! So far her belief system has paid off, and it is a down-right shame!

    Does that help???:thumbsup:
     
    #16 righteousdude2, Mar 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2010
  17. Paul3144

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    Why is your daughter on SSI?
     
  18. matt wade

    matt wade
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    This is where you and I differ. I don't believe government should provide a "safety net". I believe that if you leave the the people's money in the hands of the people, they will take care of the poor and down trodden. We are the most giving nation in the entire world. Their's no reason to believe that, if the American people, had more of their own hard earned money in their pocket that they wouldn't provide a privately funded safety net.
     
  19. righteousdude2

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    Let Me Explain About the Cracks, Matt...

    I can see that you are young, at least that is the way I perceive you to be by your naive views.

    My wife and I volunteered at the Los Angeles Union Rescue Mission for 24 years. It is true that people will provide donations to help people, but, today's rescue missions can not survive on donations alone. They need government grants to keep the doors open.

    However, that is not my reason for writing you. What I want you to know is that rescue missions are in place to catch and minister to those who have fallen through the cracks in our society.

    Over the years, I've seen many people at the mission who could get a job and get off the streets, but, for whatever reason, these folks along with the sick and frail; the drug and alcohol users and abusers; and the down trodden souls of society, just can't find it within them to change their direction in life.

    These folks needed the helping hand of the missions and the churches that backed them, to make it to another day.

    Our hearts were pulled in many ways, most of them in a depressing direction to have to see Americans living in such deplorable conditions. The truth is, the helping hands that you feel society would give to help these folks is just not there!

    The administrative staff at the Mission spent 60-70 hours a week securing cash donations and federal grants to keep the doors open. It is no easy job, and this is in the midst of the richest nation on the earth. If society worked the way you think it should work, the missions would not need to spend the brunt of their time securing operational cash to keep the mission going forward.

    It took me years to truly understand the depth of self induced emotional and financial failure that landed the street people on the streets. It often bothered me, when talking with these folks, why they couldn't muster up what was needed to get out of the cardboard box they called home, and back into society as a contributer like the rest of us!

    Some street people could have left, but didn't. Some couldn't leave, because they believed that was their lot in life. Whatever the reason for them having fallen through the cracks in or society, they were real enough to hold these folks captive to the street life that became they way-of-life over the years.

    So society does need something of a social safety net in order to maintain civil order. At times, I got the feeling that society helps out the mission to keep "those folks" on skid-row, and out of the neighborhoods, parks, and far away from their thoughts. Out-of-sight-out-of-mind.

    Some people give to rescue missions out of guilt and shame, not the generosity of their hearts. They just don't want to see these street-people camped out in vacant lots around the corner from where their house sits in their pristine neighborhoods, or, walking down their streets pushing a stolen grocery cart, dressed in rags and all dirty and smelly. Can you imagine the reaction of the folks in high-society if these folks were not kept down on skid-row; if they were allowed to go around knocking on their fancy doors and asking for money to buy food [unfortunately, most of the time, this money goes for drugs and alcohol], just like the people who stand at our crowded intersections with signs asking for money.

    It is my belief that society wants what little money they do give to charity organizations to be used to keep the undesirable folks confined to an area far, far away from where they live.Again, out-of-sight-out-of-mind?

    Thus, the government has developed social programs to catch these folks [as they slip through the cracks] and keep them away from your neighborhood.

    It's not all negative, I've seen a small percentage of street people get the needed help so they can return to being a productive member of our society. I've ran into several over the years. When we were ministering at local churches, it was heart-warming to have one of the rehabbed street people come up after the concert and tell us that they once heard us sing and preach at the URM. That our ministry and the ministry of others gave them the spiritual courage to get out of that life style. The problem is, Matt, the number of those who return to productivity is very low, and the number of those who pull themselves out of skid-row and return to skid-row, is extremely high.

    Matt, I would suggest that you seriously consider doing some volunteer work at you local rescue mission. You could gain some valuable insight and experience with the "street people of America." I know it would broaden your understanding of the so-called safety net of society.

    In closing, I used to ask the street people that if things went south in my life, if they would take me in and teach me the way of the "streets", and it was heart warming to hear them say, that I would always be welcome to share their "box." Over the years, we formed a bond with a ton of people from the streets, and I was never ashamed or embarrassed to call them my brother and sister in Christ.

    These people will always be special in my heart and mind, and I never regret spending 24 years volunteering to share the Gospel and the love of Jesus with the down-trodden on the streets of LA.

    Thanks for your response, it reminded me of what my ministry on the streets meant to me.

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul:type:
     
  20. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Response

    She has post-surgery carpal tunnel syndrome, and is bi-polar. Neither of these conditions would preclude her from being a productive member of society, but she lacks personal initiative and the desire to be more than she currently is. Somehow, she's been able to convince the government that she is totally unable to work [scratch my head on that one?]. She's learned how to live on the government checks, feels she's entitled to this money, and she is "good" at getting family, friends, and strangers to give here money.

    She is always hitting me up, but, I cut that rope years ago. I cut the rope when I found out she was drinking [a no,no with bi-polar meds] and smoking pot for the pain in her wrists.

    I feel badly for how she turned out, but, it was my ex-wife who helped and enabled my daughter to become a person who is just-one-hand-out-from-living-on-the-streets! Something she's done a few times in since graduating high school.

    I don't give her money any more, because I'm not going to be a part of her drug abuse, drinking, and lack of incentive to get a job and earn her way through life.

    Now when she ask for money, I can in good conscious tell her that I already gave when I paid tax for groceries, gas, and on my house, to name a few.

    Hope that gives you a picture. I've really tried to help her to see that she had so much more potential than she is showing, but, my words feel on barren ground. And while my conscious is clear, my heart remains very burdened and heavy for her. But the older she gets, the less hope I have that God will answer my prayers and turn her life around. Still, I keep the faith, and continue to pray that she will at least come to the Lord.:praying:

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     

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