I am going to trick you!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Bismarck, Apr 11, 2007.

  1. Bismarck

    Bismarck
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    Warning: I am going to trick you.

    But here is a question:

    Can anyone here deny that the word Secular means secular "living in the world, not belonging to a religious order"? That is, can anyone here deny that the word Secular is equivalent to "denies God"? For example, Secular Humanism is a Godless, God-denying ideology taught in our schools today.

    The word Secular equals "Denies God"...

    yeah or nay??
     
  2. jshurley04

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    Tricks or Treats

    Sounds like word search time to me and that is a treat.
     
  3. AAA

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    trick....

    Maybe so..................
     
  4. amity

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    I'll be interested in what you find out, but my instinct is that there is a difference between sacred and secular or "profane" taught in the Bible. It is a legit distinction and we all have 'secular' as well as 'sacred' activities. 'Secular' is just that which is not holy, or not set aside to God. Moses' sandals!
     
  5. Hope of Glory

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    secular c.1290, "living in the world, not belonging to a religious order," also "belonging to the state," from O.Fr. seculer, from L.L. sæcularis "worldly, secular," from L. sæcularis "of an age, occurring once in an age," from sæculum "age, span of time, generation," probably originally cognate with words for "seed," from PIE base *se(i)- "to sow" (cf. Goth. mana-seþs "mankind, world," lit. "seed of men"). Used in ecclesiastical writing like Gk. aion "of this world" (see cosmos). It is source of Fr. siècle. Ancient Roman ludi sæculares was a three-day, day-and-night celebration coming once in an "age" (120 years). Secularism "doctrine that morality should be based on the well-being of man in the present life, without regard to religious belief or a hereafter" first recorded 1846.
     
  6. Allan

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    As you can see the word Secular (as an adjective) in one aspect means in essence, Non-Religious.
    So a person can deny God and be secular. However, a peson also does not have to out right deny God to be secular.

    The word does have variations of it's meaning and therefore can imply different things. Like "being of the world" which is the antithesis of "being in Chrst", and 'worldly' verses Godly.

    But in the noun form it refers to someone NOT in an official religious position, ie. layman. IOW - a person with no officiating compassity ( a pew warmer, so to speak). It also references a person who does not have a profession.


    So to answer your post the answer can be both NO and YES. :thumbs:
     
    #6 Allan, Apr 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2007
  7. SixDays

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    RE: I'm going to trick you

    Jesus said:

    "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." Matthew 12:30 (KJV)

    The word Secular should be removed from the english language. It is developed to confuse the issue. There is no secular. All is either Good or Evil. All is either Black or White. Secular is only gray. Gray should be considered as White that has been corrupted by black OR more to the point; Secular should be considered
    as Good that has been corrupted by Evil.

    "Secular" is a polite way of saying "Luke-Warm". ALL things must be done to the Glory of God! If you are not with our Lord, then you are against him.

    Refrain from being "Secular". Secular should be avoided...always!

    SD
     
  8. amity

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    I really think this one of the most interesting discussions we have had on here for quite awhile.

    The word "secular" seems to have several distinct meanings, some good, some bad, most neutral. We might say "the federal government is a secular institution" when giving an argument against government interference in matters of religion. So in that sense not only is secularism unavoidable, but the secular/sacred distinction becomes something we should try to preserve, right?
     
  9. I Am Blessed 24

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    Dictionary.com Unabridged

    sec·u·lar
    –adjective 1. of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.

    2. not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): secular music.

    3. (of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.

    It doesn't mean they necessarily deny God. They're just not connected to Him.
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    nay

    "secular" is areligious in definition
     
  11. Ralph III

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    Yes, secular has several meanings but I disagree with your premise. It is a Worldly concept which says there are certain things which are devoid of religion or Godly aspects. You gave an example of such and is what atheist and the devil strive for. Which is to try and make "acceptable" that there are certain things devoid of religion or more specifically God.

    Ex) "the federal government is a secular institution". The Bible says Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God". So it simply is a Worldly lie to say Government is devoid of religion or specifically Godly aspects -OR- that such should be the goal! To set the record straight though, our Government has never been a secular government! The founding of our nation and it's laws were based upon Christian virtues with reverence and prayers to God. Which has always been the case.

    However, the more we allow our Government/Leaders to stray from God's word or reverence, thus empowering atheist and the like, the more "interference" you will indeed see with matters of religion. Also, secularism does not singularly apply to Religious activity but most definitely in reference to God. Otherwise, try and have your Representatives or Government reference "God" continuously, or put "God" into the Constitution or Bill of Rights. See how fast the secularist begin to object.



    I think secular has become as I stated above. It is simply a worldly term that states there are certain activities that are devoid of any religious or Godly aspects. But there is no such thing. Moses' sandals is a good example but where did Moses' sandals come from and where did Moses' come from?

    I personally don't think Christians should accept the word "secular" into their language or thought, per say. It is simply unnecessary, incorrect, and a method by which un-Godly people try to make un-Godly activities seem O.K. Or a method by which un-Godly people try to separate/distinguish all things from God, which have no apparent religious connotation. This is not meant to be a radical statement but instead truthful.

    To give a few examples.
    A) If I went to a non-religious concert, some Christians and Secularists might like to refer to this as a secular event. However such is false. Who is to say God did not make the event possible in order that someone might be witnessed to? Who is to know if God did not inspire some of the lyrics or the singer themselves, to His glory somehow? Not to mention that all things, including us, the event itself were created and possible because of God Himself.

    B) If I took a walk down a country road, the secularist groups would like to say this is a secular activity. Which is my point, as many Christians would accept that notion. However, again God created all things. He created me, the road I am walking on, the tree's and animals I may see along the way.

    So there is nothing which God has not touched and therefore the word "secular" is a deceptive word. It often is simply used by un-Godly people to make it seem that certain things void of God are Ok. This is a great lie!

    Take care and God Bless:godisgood:
     
    #11 Ralph III, Apr 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2007
  12. gb93433

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    It seems that according to this discusion then the Taliban would not be considered secular.
     
  13. amity

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    Matthew 20:24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Judges 8:23 And Gideon said unto them, I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you: the LORD shall rule over you.

    I Samuel 8 entire

    Judges 9:7-15 And when they told it to Jotham, he went and stood in the top of mount Gerizim, and lifted up his voice, and cried, and said unto them, Hearken unto me, ye men of Shechem, that God may hearken unto you. 8The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us. 9But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? 10And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us. 11But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees? 12Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us. 13And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? 14Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.
    15And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.

    Matthew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Then all government, whether ostensible secular or overtly religious, is appointed by God. There is no need to seek religiosity in government.

    I disagree with this strongly. The U.S. has never had a Christian government, or been based on a Christian political theory. Those folks were deists, not Christians.

    No, making the secular/ godly distinction is a means of keeping ourselves unspotted from the world.

    It doesn't say anything is okay. It merely alerts us to the fact that not all things are godly.
     
    #13 amity, Apr 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2007
  14. Bismarck

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    Open your wallet.

    Look at the green cash inside.

    That cash has a smorgasborg of imagery, from a Jewish Star of David to a Roman Eagle to an Egyptian Pyramid (none of which, incidentally, are Christian, however). It also bears an inscription which reads:

    Novus Ordo Seclorum
    New Secular Order​

    I know this is a touchy subject, but I'm just stating facts, facts that you can easily verify with your own eyes. At any rate, right now, Almighty YHWH-God is looking down on all the Christians in America, and YHWH sees all of the money in all of our pockets, and how all those millions of bills read, "New Secular Order".


    BTW, one vote against fancy arguments, and for "Secular = Denies God". That is certainly how it's used in practice, "Secular Humanism" is taught in our schools, and it is explicitly God-denying..
     
  15. Filmproducer

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    Do you really believe God cares one iota about what is printed on American currency? What do you propose we do about it? Now if He looks down on all the greed in the hearts of some those people with money in their pocket that's another story.
     
  16. ituttut

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    False to the word Secular equals "Denies God".
     
  17. ituttut

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    Sink the Bismarck

    Sink the Bismarck. Secular = common man or common woman.
     
    #17 ituttut, Apr 14, 2007
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  18. David Lamb

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    I would say that we do have to be careful of how we use words, especially words like "secular" that are capable of having a variety of meanings, depending on the context. For example, in the phrase "secular humanism", the word does mean humanism based on God-denying ideology, but if a Christian pastor talks of his "secular employment", he probably means that he is acting as Paul did with his tent making, and has a part-time job.

    If "secular" can mean "not belonging to a religious order" then presumably most of us on this board are secular - baptists don't have religious orders. McClintock and Strong's Cyplopedia says that religious orders are "conventual communities comprehended under one rule, subject to one superior, and wearing the same dress. Religious orders may be reduced to five kinds, viz. monks, canons, knights, mendicants, and regular clerks. They are, however, generally classified simply as monastic, military, and mendicant. White order denotes the order of regular canons of St. Augustine. Black order denotes the order of St. Benedict. Religious
    military orders are those instituted in defense of the faith, privileged to say
    mass, prohibited from marriage, etc."

    So whilst the word "secular" can indeed refer to God-denying ideology, it doesn't always mean that.
     
  19. HankD

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    Yes Bismarck, I've often brought this fact to light here at the BB.

    and BTW, anyone who is now guilt-laden because of these idolatrous images in their wallets just email me for my snail-mail address and I will be glad for you to send them to me for proper disposal.


    HankD
     
  20. Magnetic Poles

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    Wrong. Novus Ordo Seclorum means "A New Order of the Ages", referring to the dawn of this great experiment in self-rule. There is no Roman eagle but the American Bald Eagle, unknown to the Romans. And not a single Star of David.

    That said, the laws of the US are not based on the Bible, Christianity or Judaism. It is based on a truly secular Constitution, whose first amendment both allows freedom of religion for the citizens, and keeps the government out of religious matters. This nation threw out the idea of divine right of kings, and placed the government in the hands of "We the People".
     

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