I ask for a forum

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 21, 2008.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    I herewith request BaptistBoard, Would you be prepared to personally invite Professor Samuele Bacchiocchi to be confronted with questions from the posters on this Board, i.a. myself?

    I ask, because the Professor is isolating and protecting himself from and against all opposition or ideas in conflict with his own, with an impenetrable barrier -- of superiority?
     
  2. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    That's the guy! Great books I really like them.

    He has an interesting background -- his PHD work was done at the Vatican and he graduated from there as a non-Catholic (I think he may have been the first non-Catholic allowed into the doctoral program there).

    His doctoral thesis was on the change of the Sabbath to Sunday according to the historic archive data at the Vatican.

    I have 3 or 4 of his books -- all good reading.

    However - i have no idea what GE is talking about (as usual).

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,461
    Likes Received:
    45
    Prof. Bacchiocchi is more than welcome to register and join the Baptist Board if he so chooses. Feel free to email him a link to the board and extend him a personal invitation if you like. If the board Administration extended the invitation, it would be viewed as either an endorsement or a challenge which would then pit him against the board itself.
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thank you, Pastor Bob, I shall do so.

    For anyone interested in the things BobRyan mentioned about Prof. Bacchiocchi, they can of course go the website given. One may read of his quite recent newsletters, 'End-time-Issues' some defence of his own of himself. Foe anyone wgo might want to hear onther's views about the same things, go to a co.za/ URL, that calls itself 'theotokos' - It is a RC medical doctor from Cape Town. He also has a 'blog'. It's long since I corresponded with him, so next time I'll give you the names of his websites in full.

    But those are not the things I am interested in. Let him be a summa cum lauda from wherever. I want him to answer my questions to him re A.T. Robertson, Walter Bauer, and Blass and Debrunner which I vergebens has tried to just make contact with him in order for him to explain to me (and many others who have in the meantime become interested). Yes, he did receive my questions; in person and through correspondence.

    But I think I see the effects of those questions beginning to come into action these days, because Prof Bacchiocchi is not the only person I have given those questions to. As a result I most likely will never see him again. I must therefore try some other ways to clear up these specific questions with him.

    I a few weeks ago sent him another letter that should interest him greatly -- no response ... as yet!
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    So what are the questions you asked?
     
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Here's the first one. Remember he received these questions more or less in the same format on his very first visit to South Africa, in the Methodist Church in central Johannesburg, in writing from me into his own hands. I may still have copies of it. I cannot remember the year. After that again at a 'Sabbath' symposium in the Synod hall of the Gereformeerde Kerk in Potchefstroom. Also with many letters by e-mail. Etc. Here is an example of one such attempt. I did initially receive replies from him, which I would rather not supply for personal reasons. But as time went on, he simply ignored me.

    I herewith submit some questions on a pivotal point of exegesis I hope you will favourably consider to put to Professor Samuele Bacchicchi when he visits you.
    They are understandable and matter of fact questions which Professor Bacchiocchi might recognise not too strange to answer.

    As far as his time allows, Professor Bacchiocchi is well acquainted with my views and criticisms. I therefor have limited my questions to just this one point, the meaning of the Greek word <opse> in Matthew 28:1. Professor Bacchiocchi wrote a book, <The Times of the Crucifixion and Resurrection> in which he treats on the subject.

    I present the questions as though I ask them in person, so as not to perhaps embarrass you. (Emphasis - with capital letters - is mine.)

    Preliminary Question: Professor Bacchiocchi, Do you realise that the meaning you attach to this word <opse> in Matthew 28:1 is in disagreement with men like Tyndale, Webster, Lightfoot, Young and Knoch - and Dionysius of centuries before them?

    Professor Bacchiocchi, I today have four questions for you on your interpretation of the phrase in Mt.28:1, <In the end of the Sabbath>.

    First Question: Professor Bacchiocchi, How can you claim <NUMEROUS evidences> (<The Time of the Crucifixion and Resurrection>, p. 49, 84 et al.) that Matthew uses the sunrise day-reckoning and not the sunset day-reckoning in chapter 28:1 while you fail to present a SINGLE example of Matthew's use of the sunrise reckoning - except 28:1 itself?

    My Second Question is:
     
  8. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    I followed the link. Seems a strange request that GE is making - asking the Baptist Board to start a new forum specifically so that he (who, as far as I know, is not a baptist) and others can confront a Seventh Day Adventist professor with questions. :laugh:
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    David Lamb:
    "I followed the link. Seems a strange request that GE is making - asking the Baptist Board to start a new forum specifically so that he (who, as far as I know, is not a baptist) and others can confront a Seventh Day Adventist professor with questions."

    GE
    Is this laughable, from your tummy? It is strange yes. I have been stopped at every other corner. Nevertheless, This is Babtist Board, that offers "OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS" opportunity specifically so that he whoever is not a baptist or SDA - and any others - can confront a Seventh Day Adventist professor with questions. Baptist Board need not "start a new forum" - how inobservant of you. The only conclusion to arrive at is how inobservant you would read the possible debate I hoped for.

    So laugh on. It is the one who laughs last who laughs the lekkerste.
     
    #9 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2008
  10. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    212
    Gerhard,
    David Lamb was not laughing at you. He was commenting on something he thought was odd, peculiar.

    Somehow, I doubt this man you wish to confront will come here, and allow you to have a discussion with him. Since you say he hasn't responded to your letters so far, it seems to me that he's not listening to you.
     
  11. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am very sorry you thought I was laughing at you - I assure you I was not.

    Also, I do indeed know that there is a forum on the Baptist Board with the title, "Other Christian Denominations", but I thought you were asking for a new forum - the title you gave this thread was, "I ask for a forum". I misunderstood you, and I apologise.

    If, as you wrote in the original post, Professor Samuele Bacchiocchi "is isolating and protecting himself from and against all opposition or ideas in conflict with his own, with an impenetrable barrier," what makes you think he would be willing to enter into public discussions on this board?
     
  12. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    I had wondered the very things that David expressed about the OP - just didn't write them down.
     
  13. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    Seems like more Sabbath nit picking to me. Or as I like to say, beating a dead horse.
     
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have been studying the Word of God all my life. I thank my SDA father for that, although I never was a SDA myself since I got my brains (as we say in Afrikaans) and must have disappointed my father greatlyto my deepest regret. Some may regard such points and reasons for not having accepted to be SDA as nit picking. Do as you like. But the central thing I very early in my life learned, was that faith, salvation and the Scriptures are one. Please don't try and convince me you are serious about salvation or honest in your faith while casual about the Scriptures. I'm an old horse, and my father also taught me this principle. I'm not bluffed, and I never have been --- because I take the Scriptures seriously. And that's why I never was SDA. My 'thing' with Prof Bacchiocchi is about Scripture. Now you have the courage to be confronted wih the very issues I confronted him with, or, if you don't have the regard for the Scriptures or the courage or the honesty to divide bone and marrow and be divided to bone and marrow, smart remarks of disdain, will justify no indifferent attitude. You take up the whole armour of God and fight the good fight at every front; you leave not unguarded one gate into the mind or breach in the wall of truth. This is for warriors of Jesus Christ; not for holidayers on the Queen Mary.
     
    #14 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2008
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    sag38, I put the very questions I put to Prof Bacchiocchi to you. See if you are able to answer one. It's as easy as nit picking. We'll see. Or as I like to say, see if you can beat the flies off the dead horse.
     
    #15 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2008
  16. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    We don't divide bone and marrow - the Word of God does.
    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have e-mailed Prof Samuele Bacchiocchi,
    Dear Professor Bacchiocchi,

    I herewith wish to invite you to answer on www.BaptistBoard.com (through the forum 'Other Christian Denominations) to questions I would wish to ask you concerning A.T. Robertson and other scholars on the meaning and use of the word 'opse' in Mt28:1.

    Yours faithfully
    Gerhard Ebersoehn
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Prof. Bacchiocchi has replied:

    Dear Gerhard:


    My time is at a premium in this moment. I have examined OPSE in my books, and they re welcome to read my research.

    He then goes on to advertise, and sells his book with mentioning, i.a.,

    "My Passion for Biblical and Historical Accuracy

    The second factor is my passion for biblical and historical accuracy. An example is the five years I spent at the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome, ........


    The conclusions of my investigation were well-accepted by the examining commission made up of five distinguished Jesuit scholars. An indication is the gold medal of Pope Paul VI awarded to me for earning the summa cum laude distinction in my school work and dissertation From Sabbath to Sunday. This experience has greatly encouraged me to re-examine the biblical validity and historical accuracy of other popular beliefs, such as those examined in this book. .......
    [SIZE=+1]
    [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]....... They want to find out for themselves if what they have been taught is based on biblical teachings or on church traditions. ......"[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]Etcetera, as always.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]Maybe I could make him come out into the open if I insulted him, and called him a coward and hypocrite. I am prepared to carry the consequences.


    [/SIZE]
     
  19. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    In most cases those men in leadership in denominations would never debate anyone.

    I have been around long enough and realized years ago that many of those men talk one thing and believe another. There are many authors who sell books instead of study. When it comes ot the details ever notice hopw mcuh is left out. It is for good reason.

    I spoke with an author who published with Broadman & Holman and he told me that the manuscript was edited to say what the he never wrote or believed. I know another who wrote a book for them that they asked him to write on women in Baptist life and then killed the book because they did not want the truth exposed.
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    I personally had to watch my books physically taken off the shelves of four universities I know of, three SDA 2 of in USA and 1 in SA, and one Dutch Reformed in SA.
     

Share This Page

Loading...