I Corinthians 14 - QUESTIONS

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by I Am Blessed 24, Sep 12, 2003.

  1. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    1) Is Paul saying that he 'spoke in tongues' the way most Baptists interpret 'speaking in tongues' today?

    2) Was he exhorting us ALL to 'speak in tongues', but decently and in order?

    3) Was he referring to speaking foreign languages?

    4) What do we do with this chapter?
     
  2. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter
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    1) MacArthur's position is that Paul is referring to ecstatic gibberish, as is common in Pentecostal churches, certain Catholic services, Hindu temples, and among some Moslems, Buddhists, Mormons, and various primitive cults. Others say he was referring to genuine tongues. I haven't made up my mind completely yet.

    3) Genuine tongues are actual foreign languages spoken miraculously by someone who never learned them. Interpretation of tongues is a miraculous gift of translating a foreign language one has never learned, in cases where the speaker cannot do so.

    2) No, Paul specifically asked, "Not all speak in tongues, do they?" The Greek grammar of his series of questions required each anticipate a negative answer.

    4) An interesting question. If we accept it as normative in its entirety, we must become Pentecostal. If we accept it as not at all normative, it gives us a nice history lesson. But if we accept that the chapter is normative today, except that the miraculous gifts have ceased, it teaches us that a church service is intended to involve participation by the people, in that they offer prayers, suggest songs and hymns, and Scripture passages, much like a small-group meeting or home Bible study does today [​IMG] --that a NT church didn't have a set liturgy run by a select few or the ordained elite. [​IMG] Such a service operates spontaneously, :cool: and lasts as long as the Spirit wills, not being clocked to end in time for members to cater to the flesh by watching grown men play a children's game :rolleyes: while violently attacking and injuring one another. :eek: And, of course, there are many other possibilities to take away from this chapter as well. :D
     
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Sue, what do you understand by the phrase "the way most Baptists interpret 'speaking in tongues' today"?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Matt: I apologize. I was lumping all IFB's together (stereotyping).

    I SHOULD have said, "the way a lot of Baptists interpret". I realize there are some 'Bapticostals'.

    My understanding is that 'speaking in tongues' today is interpreted as 'unintelligent gibberish' in a lot of Baptist circles and is attributed mostly to Charismatics.

    But you answered none of my questions. I did not start this thread as a debate topic. I started it to get some "real" answers.
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    Number 3, pretty much is my position. This makes much of what passes for the exercise of this gift unscripitural, if not demonic.
     
  6. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Thank you to all that took time to answer. I thought there would be more feedback on this. I'm still not sure what to do with this chapter.

    Anyone have any scriptural references that are NOT in this chapter pertaining to this subject?
     
  7. Thankful

    Thankful
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    Sue, I was very confused about speaking in tongues. You know that some people teach and preach that if one is truly filled with the Holy Spirit that that person will be able to speak in tongues.

    This bothered me.

    I have trouble with speaking foreign languages even though I have taken courses in Latin and Spanish.

    I couldn't speak in tongues, but I knew I was filled with the Holy Spirit.

    Just a few years ago, I was sitting in a Southern Baptist Women's Sunday School Class and we were studying the gifts of the Holy Spirit when right then I had an "AH HA" moment. Only SOME people are given the gift of speaking in tongues. I was so excited that I spoke out in class to share my sudden revelation, but was immediately admonished by the teacher that we were not going to discuss speaking in tongues.

    I believe she did this because she didn't understand speaking in tongues.

    I really think in this Chapter that Paul is saying that some people can speak in tongues, some can prophesy, etc. He is referring to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

    My beliefs are very simple and I take most things on faith. I do not think that one needs to dwell too deeply in trying to find a meaning in this Chapter other than what Paul is saying.

    We Christians should focus more on the Gift Giver than the Gift anyway. We should use the gifts that we are given to serve the Giver.

    An example:

    I can play the piano, but I cannot play a trumpet. Does that mean that I am not a musician?
     
  8. Don

    Don
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    What do you do with this chapter?

    First, put it in the context of the entire letter: A rebuke, a reproof, an exhortation. The church at Corinth had many problems; this chapter addresses one of those problems (on different levels).

    Second, take the last verse of the chapter as the guideline: Let all things be done decently and in order. This alone tells us that it's okay to have a spirit-led service, but that it still needs to be done in something other than a "helter-skelter" manner.
     
  9. Molly

    Molly
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    The tongues was always:

    1)a known language

    2)never done by women

    3)never a gibberish foolish nonsense kind of thing

    4)always had an interpreter(one who knew that language and could verify it)

    So,Paul is saying in Ch.14,that it is much better to explain the gospel than to think speaking in tongues is best(speaking in tongues was only done when there was someone who didn't understand the spoken language.....so miraculously,another person could speak their language) ....esp now that we have the Word of God for man to read and hear preached...it is better and we have it in its totality.

    I believe the need for tongues has ceased now that we can communicate the word of God in many languages,if not all.

    Could God still use this gift,yes,if he sees fit,but it is NOT an emotional based gibberish that is not a language and someone just makes up what it means....this is worng and unbiblical.

    And...being spirit filled is being obedient to God's Word. If we are obeying His Word,we are spirit filled.

    These are my thoughts,but Sue...you probably already know this...just thought I'd share what I have come to understand.

    Good Question and topic!

    Molly [​IMG] (I like this little flower!)
     
  10. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Check this out. This is an interesting story (for those who are interested) about Jonathan Goforth (1859 - 1936). I think it relates to the topic.
    Lacy

    From http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/giants/biogoforth.html


    With elation of spirit the Goforths moved further and further into the
    interior on the way to the remote province of Honan to set up a home and a
    mission station. Their early years in China were marked by sweet joys,
    piercing sorrows and significant manifestations of character. Chief sorrows
    were connected with the untimely passing of their first two children. Their
    severe heartache was swallowed up in their travail over the woes of the
    Chinese masses. The word "without" was written in giant letters over the
    blackness of heathenism on every side as the Goforths moved along.

    Men and women are toiling without a Bible, without a Sunday, without prayer,
    without songs of praise. They have homes without peace, marriage without
    sanctity, little children without innocence, young men and girls without
    ideals, poverty without relief or sympathy, sickness without skillful help
    or tender care, sorrow and crime without remedy, and death without hope.

    Before reaching Honan, Goforth had received a cordial letter from Hudson
    Taylor, telling him of the tremendous obstacles ahead and reminding him of
    his need of super-natural assistance. "Brother, if you would enter that
    province," Taylor wrote, "you must go forward on your knees." Goforth did
    just that. Not a day passed but that circumstances and events caused him to
    recall his life text and to rely on its promise, "Not by might, nor by
    power, but by my Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts" (Zechariah 4:6).

    By means of prayer and dependence upon the Holy Spirit, he witnessed and
    experienced many miracles. One of these was in connection with language
    study. In college in Toronto he was weak in languages and in China he made
    little progress in the use of the language, although he applied himself to
    the task with great diligence. Repeatedly when he was trying to preach to a
    group of people, the Chinese would point to another missionary, who had
    reached China a year after he did, and say, "You speak. We don't understand
    him." This was mortifying but Goforth refused to be discouraged. "The Lord
    called me to China, he said, "and I expect His Spirit to perform a miracle
    and to enable me to master the language." He picked up his Chinese Bible and
    went to the chapel. As he began to preach the miracle happened; He spoke
    with a fluency and power that amazed the people and thence forth his mastery
    of the Chinese language was recognized everywhere. Two months later he
    received a letter from Knox College telling of a prayer meeting in which the
    students prayed "just for Goforth" and the presence of God was manifestly
    among them. Looking into his diary he found that the prayer meeting was at
    the very time his tongue gained such sudden mastery over the Chinese
    language
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    Tongues were very rare in the early church. Used as a special sign and gift to communicate the message miraculously in another language.

    Watch the pattern of use and mention in the NT. It occured a couple times in Acts. Then not mentioned again.

    In how many epistles is it mentioned? Corinthians, one of the earliest of the era, and there limited and abuse condemned.

    Then what? NEVER AGAIN. Nada. Zip. Passed out of existance.

    The modern "tongues" movement is both physiological and demonic. One thing it ISN'T and that is Biblical. Sad.
     
  12. Matt Black

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    Sue, thanks for clarification. I would agree that modern tongues is mainly unintelligible gibberish, as practised by Pentecostals and charismatics. I Cor 12 & 14 glossolalia were I believe xenolalia ie genuine foreign languages unknown to the speaker. They still exist today, although genuine instances are rare.

    A good book to try is Showing the Spirit by Don Carson, which is an exposition of I Cor 12&14.

    YOurs in Christ

    Matt
     
  13. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd
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    Dr. Bob said:
    I think that if you check each occurrance of tongues in Acts - you will find that they were all in the presence of believing Jews.

    Significance - to authenticate what was happening at the time as from God.
     
  14. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    And what about at Corinth?

    YOurs in Christ

    Matt
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    Corinth is the only place outside Palestine where "tongues" are even mentioned. And there is was abused, misused, immitated and aped. Paul spends this time trying to straighten out the mess.

    No women
    Must interpret
    Must have people there who need to hear in that language
    2-3 at most
    Decent, orderly

    NONE OF WHICH is done in the modern charismania.

    I'm not sure that there was ANY 'genuine' gift of tongues in Corinth.
     
  16. gb93433

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    History has recorded cases of non-believers speaking in tongues.

    What Paul was attempting to do in 1 Cor. 14 was to bring things under control. Perhaps if you take a look at http://users.erols.com/nbeach/eleusis.html

    This might help to explain about some of their practices then.
     

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