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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by mactx, Jul 5, 2006.

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  1. mactx

    mactx New Member

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    I know a gal who is into something called "Hebraic roots". From what i read of her postings it seems they hold to the OT laws AND claim to live under NT grace.
    I do not see how one can do that. She says they tithe, instead of giving (different stuff) and offer small scarifices on an altar... i thought Jesus became the last sacrifice.
    Anyway i know what i believe, i am just not sure how best to minister to her on this.
    I do not see how a body can claim Christ and yet follow the jewish laws...

    Here is a basic post she made on this:
    "Well, Hebraic roots Christians generally believe the Old Testament is in full force and effect and that all appointed times (feasts and such) and commandments are still to be observed, including the Sabbath. Most of us eat according to the guidelines in the scripture and keep the feasts as commanded; Passover, Tabernacles, and others and don't adhere to the world's standards when it comes to food, special days. We really do ask ourselves, "What would Yeshua do?" but our answers are often different than those of our mainstream Christian brothers and sisters answers.

    We believe in YHWH and that His son, Yeshua HaMashiach died on the cross for our sins and the sins of others. We believe He was buried, rose again, and will someday return.

    In general, we're very cognizant of the fact the Jesus was Hebrew and practiced the Jewish faith as it was *at that time*. (It took my mother years to just accept the fact that Jesus was a practicing Jew and that Christianity as practiced today was NOT the faith of Jesus or his apostles) We don't believe He did away with the Old Testament, as so many think, but came to make it full, to expand it, to make it better, clearer, more joyful, etc. We think that because when the scripture is read from the Hebraic perspective, so much is seen that simply isn't visible otherwise. In other words, the scripture doesn't say he did away with the law - that's a misunderstanding/misinterpretation. Unfortunately, just about all of us grew up with that Gentile mindset and getting away from it can be long and difficult.

    There's a lot of variety within those who are Hebraic roots. Some men wear talit (prayer shawls) and some don't. Some women cover, some don't. A lot of people have a menorah in their home and use it, a lot don't.

    Our church is definitely unusual in that not only is the Hebraic perspective encouraged, it's taught to children and adults alike. We don't have a formal Torah study class though it would be great if we did. But when our pastor teaches or preaches he does it from that perspective rather than the Gentile perspective and it's amazing how so many confusing scriptures just pop alive and make sense. I don't agree with everything he puts forth but I want to learn from him and I'm definitely doing that.     "
    i know this is off balance but how can i express that? with out being my normal blunt (some say mean) self?
     
    #1 mactx, Jul 5, 2006
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I think I would focus a bit on this statement and simply ask her if she could be more specific as to how they are different from mainstream Christians. Perhaps you might even ask her about some specific doctrinal issues about what her Church teaches about them. For example, I think I would start with something like total depravity, or something like this. I would avoid addressing the outward practices of her Church (such as celebrating Shabbat, etc...) until I got to the heart of why they do what they do (i.e. what is the theological foundation for what they do?). It is quite possible that some of these practices may be acceptable based on why they do them. Just my opinion.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #2 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 5, 2006
  3. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    I agree with Joseph.

    Has she actually said that they offer animal sacrifices? This would be the only thing I'd have a problem with, as Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice and He did away with any need for more sacrifices.
     
    #3 bapmom, Jul 5, 2006
  4. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    The main thing is to pray before speaking.

    Perhaps you will be led to show her, in a gentle spirit of Christ's love, places in the New Testament where law and sacrifice were done away with by Jesus' death on the cross.

    On the one hand, a desire to purify the faith is a good thing. On the other hand, one can go to far with anything, and at first blush it sounds like this is niether Hebrew or particularly Christian in form. First, a follower of Judaism would never write or say the Name of God...

    But I digress. Please keep us up-to-date.
     
    #4 tragic_pizza, Jul 5, 2006
  5. mactx

    mactx New Member

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    I think the part that I get confused over is their use of the word "fulfilled"
    they take it to mean the OT was extended, and perfected in the NT.
    I take it to mean the old law was finished because Christ fulfilled it.
    I am still reading her posts to gather a better understanding.
     
    #5 mactx, Jul 5, 2006
  6. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

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    I think Joseph and Bapmom have covered it well. I'd really be concerned if they are actually making animal sacrifices, however.
     
    #6 genesis12, Jul 5, 2006
  7. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    After you get to the point you can discuss scripture openly with her, I would discuss Heb 8 with her;

    6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
     
    #7 LeBuick, Jul 5, 2006
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Quoting,
    "until I got to the heart of why they do what they do (i.e. what is the theological foundation for what they do?"

    Yes! Paul went to that heart, directly, when he said that the Law was nailed to the cross. That is quite another thing than to say Christ abolished the Law - for then He would have to have abolished Himself. For He IS The Law of God in Living Person Himself. If only both Jews and Christians could grasp that!
     
    #8 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 6, 2006
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