I Initially Wrote this as a Response on a Thread

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher4truth, Dec 16, 2010.

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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    I think it needs to be examined by all, myself included.

    Here is my reply found in the thread "...resurgence of reformation theology"

    I hope it will do all good.

    Here it is:

    I see, as well as others, this elitist attitude among Calvinists.

    To ascribe other theological slants (those orthodox views that are conservative) as darkness is unfortunate.

    Many of the Sovereign churches I have attended become so thematic, that every text, every sermon is election, predestination, Calvinism, week after week after week.

    Our theology shouldn't become our God. Shamefully, it has. If anything becomes our God other than He Himself, it turns ugly, and instead of God working through us, that new god we have set on a pedestal consumes us and controls us. Although I believe in Reformed theology, I will not become thematic about it.

    I started these threads to become informed about it (reformed theology.) Instead of this, we have brothers come on here and accuse others, myself namely, among others as being "pelagian" or believing my works assist Christ. Then we have one who says all others, by implication, are in darkness. We have people feigning repentance while at the same time pasting anothers statements in an attempt to slam the person while doing so, and it is foolishly called wise by unthinking persons. Cheap shots on others because they don't agree with one's theology. Personal attacks on threads and in private. Accusations that I hold other writings as high and as valuable as the Scriptures, and that I hold them as inspired.

    These are the things that prove people are more in love with themselves, and more in love with their personal theologies, more in love with hating the brethren (to wit, the Scripture speaks highly against such attitude, and is very suggestive) instead of being in love with the Christ who shed His precious, holy blood for their sins.

    I am amazed that persons that claim themselves to be Christian can spout off accusations, slanders, out-right lies, upon other brothers, the witch hunt mantra "I can tell how he writes his posts he's a false teacher" bologna, and yet go on with life as if nothing happened. It's funny, I wonder has God even disciplined you as He will a true son over doing these things, or do we just go on, undisciplined, as if we are fatherless and not His? It is a total, undeniable shame, and those who have slandered and accused need to get their hearts right with their brother and their God over it.


    Who cares about your theology. Your slanders, mouths, and lies show who really controls you. Our theology is meaningless when our lives are denying it, and it is being denied right here for all to see on BB.

    - Blessings to all
     
  2. Gershom

    Gershom
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    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  3. preacher4truth

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    Your reply enforces my post, and you are coloring your ownself here.

    You're a preacher?

    Wow. You should be ashamed of yourself.
     
  4. Gershom

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    I rest my case.
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Preach.....out of curiosity, did you read Archangel's response to Webdog? If not, please read it at your 1st available.....

    Thanks
     
  6. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Yes, I read it.

    I know more about his response.

    But that is not all I said, so why stop there? What else was in my post?

    People need to open their eyes. The things that happen on here are shameful.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    I am not following you....perhaps Im tired. Its yours to embellish if you've got the mind to my brother. Please, just dont do anything out of hostility.
     
  8. abcgrad94

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    Preacher4truth, thank you. There are many dear folks I highly respect here who are Calvinist, although I disagree with the theology. I do not debate this issue with them, instead I try to ignore it as much as possible because I've seen firsthand what Calvinistic beliefs have done to members of my family. To me, it's a petty issue that divides churches, families, and friends. I want no part of it.

    I agree with your post. The pride and arrogance I've seen from those claiming "Calvinism" both in my family and in my church make me stay away from the subject as much as possible. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. As to the Calvinist BB members, I haven't seen this attitude, quite possibly because I just stay away from those threads.

    Some might call me a "3 point" Calvinist, others have told me if I'm not Calvinist then I'm Armenian. Personally, I don't care (or ascribe to) either label. I'd like to see C/A banned from BB completely!
     
  9. Old Union Brother

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    I came here to learn and discuss doctrine but it is next to impossible. Every discussion turns into if you are not a 5 point calvinist then you are all wrong, or worse name calling. I can respect you even if I disagree with your doctrine. So many can't seem to do that. A Lot of people on here haven't learned that kindness causes people to listen and mean spiteful words turn then off.
     
  10. preacher4truth

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    My 2 oldest children have turned Calvinist. I rarely hear from them due to this, for all others are heretics, and since I was an IFB at that time, I am not good enough for them. It's not good enough that one has been gloriously saved.

    Then? You see the same attitude on here from the same, they name call, slander, accuse, come across as arrogant, they "repent" and paste others statements in doing so, they are way above all in their understanding of all things spiritual, can sense that others are only "religious" just by their posts (implicating they are then lost) they are the end all to all things spiritual in their minds. And they slander and call names and carry on not disciplined for such from above.

    I believe in reformed theology, but I will not allow it to control me, nor my glorifying of Christ.

    Thank you for your post.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Excuse me...little tired...whats C/A? Thanks
     
  12. abcgrad94

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    It stands for Calvinism/Armenian. The BB used to have an area just for those debates, but thankfully it was removed.
     
  13. The Archangel

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    Your situation is very unfortunate. However, I don't think it is fair to say that "Calvinism" alone has divided churches, families, and friends.

    Certainly there are some of my ilk that cannot abide Arminians. They are sadly mistaken. But, in my experience, it is usually the Arminians who make the biggest deal about someone being a Calvinist and then refuse to get along with them.

    The vast majority of Calvinists I know are more than happy to fellowship with and work with Arminians.

    So, while your experience is obviously painful and I'm sorry for you, it takes two sides to have a divisive disagreement and both sides have a part in it (not talking about the division in your family).

    Hopefully, this situation in your family will be resolved.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    OK thanks....I get up real early & by 9pm I be dragon (call me Puff) LOL

    Anyway, you may not want to hear this but I come from some fairly nice Calvinistic People from the UK. They go back to Wales in the 1600's & were part of the Baptist experiments in the country (Before Smith). By the time they got here, they participated in the new religion of Methodism but stayed away from that Englishman Wesley & followed a guy named George Whitefield & he was a Calvinist. These people worked hard grueling jobs in Coal & Iron Ore Mines in the old sod & in the new country. The 1st thing they did was built churches (even before erecting their own houses) & they served faithfully in those churches. They are known still for their singing & they were also rewarded by God with encounters from the Holy Ghost known as "Revival" ....if you ever studied it, you know what a glorious thing revival was. They would all gather in a meeting place, nightly praying & listening to sermons & then the singing....Oh, the singing of my people until they received the HS. Oh the Glorious Feeling of the Visitation!

    Obviously I'm proud of that ....it caused a relative of mine to become an traveling preacher for his own people & because he knew both the Welsh & the English, he was valuable as a translator in many churches on Sunday (even Arminian-LOL)

    Guess I'm just relating all this because even up to 50 yrs ago...these folks would go & help out one another, Methodist to Episcopal to Presbyterian to Baptist to Congregational ....they all helped one another & respected each others churches, theologies & Pastors. We need to do that again.
     
    #14 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2010
  15. abcgrad94

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    Thank you for your kind words, Archangel. It has been my experience that every Calvinist man (and some women) I know IN PERSON cannot just agree to get along--they must constantly bring it up, push it, argue, and debate at every single opportunity. It's not enough to say you disagree. No, they must FORCE the issue and harp on it, over and over, to try to persuade and convert others to their viewpoint. When that doesn't work, the name calling begins.

    I'm sure there are exceptions, but I sure haven't found any. The KJVO folks I know are the same way about Bible versions. There are just some things on which people will never agree. We need to get over it and move on instead of getting hung up on non-essentials. Round and round and round. . .it's like a dog chasing its tail. It goes nowhere and only serves to keep the dog from doing other things.
     
  16. Jerome

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    Exactly.

    Charles Spurgeon:

     
  17. The Archangel

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    You're definitely correct about these things--but, I'd say there are Arminians that also do the same thing you notice Calvinists doing.

    Many Calvinists are trying to "educate" or help the Arminians grow. I'd imagine Arminians do the same thing. I don't think the discussion is the problem. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say the problem is that it degenerates into name calling. This indeed is the root problem.

    The problem of the degeneration into name calling and intentionally misrepresenting each other's position (on both sides) is shameful. It is conduct unbecoming a Christian. We as Christians are supposed to love one another and demonstrate that love to one another. Even if the discussion gets intense...love must still be demonstrated.

    Maybe the Calvinists and maybe the Arminians will learn this...that there's something much more important than a person's respective system of theology. We must not be Calvinisers; Arminians must not be Arminianisers. We must be Christians first.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  18. Jerome

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    That has been my experience as well.
    Non-calvinistic saints in the church were called "dead wood".
    Arminian this, pelagian that, etc. etc. etc.
     
  19. abcgrad94

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    Well said.:thumbsup:
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    It does not have to be that way. To my knowledge, there are maybe a half-dozen Calvinists in my church. Yet we have great fellowship with each other, with our pastor, and serve right alongside non-Calvinists.

    Our views are well-known, as are those of non-Cals in the congregation. But we have given each other liberty in that area, because we value unity. Maybe we give too much liberty, but if you've ever been in a church fight, you'll bend over backwards to keep it from happening again.

    That said, I can understand why it can be a contentious issue. I remember 40 years ago, when I discovered the Doctrines of Grace, I couldn't wait to ask my pastor about it, and talk about it with anybody who would listen. My pastor rolled his eyes when he saw me coming. But this was an exciting new discovery, and I wanted everybody to know what I had found.

    It took a while for me to understand that not everybody received this doctrine as enthusiastically as I had. In fact, some were strangely antagonistic. I couldn't understand why they couldn't see this as clearly as I did.

    As I matured, I learned that this attitude didn't win converts to Calvinism. I rarely bring up the subject, but I'm still willing to discuss it, if I'm asked about it.
     
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