"I John 1:9 - The Baptist Mass".

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by AVBunyan, Aug 22, 2004.

  1. AVBunyan

    AVBunyan
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    Do I believe a saint has to confess their sins? No

    Do I believe a saint has to confess their sins in order to be forgiven? Double NO!

    Do I believer should confess his sins - I'll answer later in the post.

    Now, why?
    First – if I read my Bible right Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 says I am already forgiven. When Christ died for my sins 2000 years ago He died for them all – the ones I, as a believer, did yesterday and the ones I am going to do later on. If God forgave me at Calvary for my sins then I am forgiven. My forgiveness is based upon Christ’s finished work at Calvary – not my confessing them.

    Let’s go further. Let’s say I go in and talk mean to my wife. This is sin. I immediately sit down and read Eph. 1:7 – it says I am forgiven. I go and get drunk (God forbid!) – this is sin. I sit down and read col. 1:14 – it says I am forgiven. You see I am forgiven – it is as though I never sinned or ever will in God’s eyes – read Ephesians 1. My standing before God is sinless perfection. Yes, I sin all day long because of this vile nature I still have in me but I am forgiven already based upon Calvary!

    Now, here comes the saints’ “out”. I John 1:9. This is the main verse everyone uses to say we have to confess our sins. I call this verse the “Baptist mass” for many have abused this verse into thinking that all they have to do after they sin is to confess and all is done.
    This has led to an abuse of the grace we have and given some a license to sin. Shameful!

    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Look real close if you are going to use this verse as your ammo. Take it as it stand with no application or going to any worthless ancient word studies.

    Here your forgiveness is based upon your confession. This forgiveness is conditional. If you confess you get forgiveness – if you don’t – no forgiveness. I’m not talking about your “fellowship” with the Father (as some says it “really” means) – I’m talking about forgiveness.

    As mentioned above my forgiveness is in Jesus Christ – not by me asking forgiveness. If you take this verse at face value for TODAY then you would be confessing your sins at an alarming rate. And what if you forgot to confess one – according to the verse it means you are not forgiven and I’d like to see you get into heaven with any sins on you. You see how if you take this verse here as it stand your new full time job as saint would be confessing all day long for we sin all day long!!! You ought to get down on your knees right now and thank the Lord for grace!

    Summary – the saint does not have to confess their sins in order to have those sins forgiven – the saint is already forgiven – was forgiven a long time ago.
    Does someone have to confess his or her sins in order to get forgiveness? You bet – not sure who they are but I would be willing to bet that it has something to do with Israel and the tribulation period but I know one thing it contradicts Pauline doctrine of Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 so I know it doesn’t doctrinally apply to the blood-bought saint today. Never said I understood it all - I just said it wasn’t for me today and I am glad!!!

    Now – application - Do I believe it is good to confess – yes. It’s not a bad idea to cleanse the conscience before the Lord. This could remove any barriers YOU have put up that have kept you from fellowshipping with the Lord. Sometimes sin takes away our boldness to go before the throne. The Lord doesn’t put up barriers but WE DO. To acknowledge our sins and ignorances keeps us honest before the Lord. But to confess in order TO GET SOMETHING FROM God I believe to be unscriptural and not needed.

    What do I know when I know I’ve blown it? I acknowledge it to my Father – I thank him for the forgiveness I have already have – I claim the power He has given me to not live that way and ask His grace so as not to do such evil again. But I don’t ask God to forgive me for why should I ask Him for something that He has already done!!!???!!! Claim the forgiveness you already have in Christa and go and sin no more!

    What should understanding real forgiveness do for the saint? It should humble him. It should make him so grateful and thankful that he would not want to sin so easily. It should call his mind to a quicker repentance when he does sin knowing that God sacrificed His only Son for sin.

    So, saint, guess what? You are forgiven regardless of what you do. Does this mean you should go out and live like the devil? God forbid - Rom. 6:1,2 – your duty is to walk worthy of the vocation wherewith you have been called – Eph. 4:1. Are you saved? Then live like you are and let the world see a work of grace in you.

    God bless

    [Title changed by Brother Dallas per request from topic originator]

    [ August 26, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
  2. Frogman

    Frogman
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    I am getting ready to leave for work but thought I would post a reply to move this back up to view of others who may be interested.

    This article sounds like Conditional Time Salvation.

    I have one question. I may have misunderstood the article I read it hurriedly. If we truly believe that all sins past, present and future are forgiven through the shed blood of Christ, then I don't agree with the posted article. The theme seems to contradict that belief. If I am wrong let me know.

    But it seems to me that any sin, if future even, is included under the redemption price.

    IMHO, this makes all a work of Grace. I am still learning or studying CTS but I can say thus far I am not able to receive it, maybe because of a lack of understanding.

    May God Bless
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  3. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    AVBunyan says:

    So, saint, guess what? You are forgiven regardless of what you do. Does this mean you should go out and live like the devil? God forbid - Rom. 6:1,2 – your duty is to walk worthy of the vocation wherewith you have been called – Eph. 4:1. Are you saved? Then live like you are and let the world see a work of grace in you.


    AVL1984: What about this AVB?

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    If there is no more sacrifice for sins and we sin willfully, I don't believe that sin will be forgiven and we will give an account for that sin.

    AVL1984
     
  4. Frogman

    Frogman
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    So, do yuo believe Christ's atonement does not cover these sins?

    What about a sin of ommission such as Jonah, would that be willful? This would be a child of God having a personal knowledge of God's will for their life yet refusing to do it. How would the world "know" the child of God is engaging in this willful sin?

    I believe all sin of each and every elect child of God is atoned for by the sacrifice of Christ. At the same time, I agree with you that we shall give an account to the Lord for our sins whether they be slight in our esteem or they be hideous still we shall give an account.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  5. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    I believe that once we know what is the right thing to do and rebel against it, because the blood of Christ has already been applied to cover sin, and the believe deliberately treads through that blood to sin, that it is on our own shoulders. We have willfully taken on the responsibility for that sin. I'm not totally sure if this is the correct way to put it. But I know that the Bible says if we do so, there is no more sacrifice for sin. I'm taking that as meaning that we are going to pay for it ourselves, whether through loss of reward to a greater degree, or possibly here on earth in the form of God's protection upon our lives. I'm still studying this one out, as it's been a long time since this subject has arisen (nearly 20 years since the last time discussed). So, if I'm wrong and there is doctrine to prove otherwise, then I'll be more than happy to consider a change. [​IMG]

    AVL1984 [​IMG]
     
  6. GODzThunder

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    I personally believe that those who are forgiven are adopted into the family of God, and like children who are disobedient we will be chastised for our wrong doing, as any loving father would do to his children to help teach them right.

    I believe that like any child, to hope to avoid chastisement when we realize our wrong, we should apologize and seek to live better.
     
  7. GODzThunder

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    I also believe that confession is good for the heart [​IMG] I do not believe that you can lose your salvation and that all sins are covered BUT I believe that you should confess your sins to clear your own conscience. And that is human instinct to want to confess to help make all things right.
     
  8. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    Oh, don't get me wrong, GODzThunder, I don't believe one can lose their salvation either. Nor will I ever. I believe confession is good for the soul, also. But, I believe the Bible in those verses in Hebrews clearly states there is no more sacrifice for sin and warns us of some kind of recompense/punishment...I don't know what kind as I'm not a Grad-E-8 of some sophisticated Bible college (not downing anyone who is), I'm just going by what I see in scripture.

    AVL1984
     
  9. Russ Kelly

    Russ Kelly
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    Matt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. KJV

    I think that 1 John 1:9 and Matt 6:15 are both speaking to DISCIPLES.

    1 JOhn 1:9 is indeed speaking aboutd FELLOWSHIP, not RELATIONSHIP.

    Yes, all sins have been forgiven the moment one accepts Christ as personal savior. The RELATIONSHIP is eternally fixed, as most Baptists believe.

    Sins committed after the new birth affect FELLOWSHIP and bring certain and sure discipline from God if not dealt with. However, just as God does not dis-inherit his children and adopted children because of subsequent sin, neither can subsequent unconfessed sins cause one to fall from grace.

    Confess you sins. Kept that loving fellowing alive. Avoid God's discipline of His children.
     
  10. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    I don't grasp your correlation of the two scriptures. The relationship may be eternally fixed, but the Bible says that if they sin willfully, there is no more sacrifice for sins and then asks how much more we should fear because we have trodden under foot the blood of Christ. No one has yet addressed the issue.

    AVL1984
     
  11. Russ Kelly

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    Neither Mt 6:15 nor 1 John 1:9 are speakingd about how to be saved, or justified. They are referrign to how to stay in fellowship with God (oppossed tdo relatdionship).

    Your reference tdo Heb 10:26 (compare 6:4-6) has been running on another thread. I will briefly comment. A child of God cannot go back and re-sacrifice Christ to cover sins commited after being born again. Without sincere repentance, he can only expect severve chastisement.

    To change the subject, calling 1 John 1:9 the Baptists' confessional completely misses the value RCs place on the ingesting of Christ in the communion wafer and thus becoming the very righteousness of God. RCs teach that God sees the righteousness of God WITIN the believer through the wafer provided by the sacraments. Baptists do not teach this.
     
  12. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    Ok, now I see your point on the RC's and I Jn 1:9.
    I believe the greater punishment we will receive is loss of rewards, positioning in Heaven. Many won't confess their sins believeing there is no need to reconcile to the father using the excuse that "it's already under the blood", which it is. Yet, they don't seem to understand the concept of the necessity of confession to the father for forgiveness of that sin they have so willfully done.

    AVL1984
     
  13. James_Newman

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    Matthew 24
    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
    49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    That doesnt sound like losing a crown to me.
     
  14. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    James Newman, I hope you're not implying that someone can lose their salvation.

    AVL1984
     
  15. Johnv

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    Yes. Even my mother told me that I need to say "I'm sorry for doing that" when I hurt someone.

    To be forgiven? No. But to repent, yes. Repentence and forgiveness are two different things. What good is all the forgiveness in the world if we don't repent of our transgressions?
     
  16. Russ Kelly

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    Those who believe one can fall from grace do not distinguish the difference between JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION.

    Repentance before justification is part of regeneration that results in one becoming a child of God.

    Repentence after justification (during sanctification) restores to fellowship with God and with the saints.

    1 John 1:9 is addressed to belaievers and is a dicussiion of staying in fellowship with God.
     
  17. James_Newman

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    No AVL, I believe in eternal security through faith, once saved always saved. But I do believe that a Christian is commanded to obey the Lord once they are saved, and there are consequences for not doing so. There is a general attitude in the church that Jesus won't discipline us after death, but the Bible doesn't teach that. Rather it teaches that we are supposed to be working for the reward of the Kingdom and that a Christian who is not found worthy to enter that Kingdom (to reign with Christ) will be cast out, until the last day which is when we are promised to be raised up if we believe.

    John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    The Kingdom is not the last day, it is the 7th day of rest, and lasts 1000 yrs. We must obey Christ to recieve the reward of the Kingdom, but eternal salvation is a free gift.
     
  18. AVL1984

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    Ah, I see your position now. I've heard similar teachings, but haven't really studied it out. I guess the Lord is pointing out that I might want to delve further into it. Thanks.

    AVL1984
     

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