I Killed My Old Man!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by jim62, May 10, 2012.

  1. jim62

    jim62
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    Romans 6:6

    King James Version (KJV)

    6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
     
  2. mont974x4

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    Who crucified our old man? I would suggest that it is God, and not man, who does this.
     
  3. jim62

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    Galatians 2:20

    King James Version (KJV)

    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
     
  4. mont974x4

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    I'm sorry, I am not trying to argue with you. I think we fail to understand what it means to be crucified as well as failing to understand what it means to be a new creation. The verses you are sharing point out this essential truth.

    What I am trying to point out is that we cannot crucify ourselves. We cannot save ourselves, which is the overarching act that envelopes our being crucified with Christ, by any means. What is a must is that we recognize that work that God does in us, and for us, and then live in a manner worthy of what he has done.
     
  5. jim62

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    Romans 13:14

    King James Version (KJV)

    14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof. Galatians 5:16

    King James Version (KJV)

    16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Maybe you can tell me about these two vs.
     
  6. mont974x4

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    Like I said in my previous post. We are to walk in a manner worthy of our calling. We need to recognize what Christ accomplished for us on the cross. We need to recognize what God has done in us and for us through His grace. We need to then, walk in a way that proves that out. We are not to give any occasion for the flesh but walk in the Spirit.

    To put it bluntly, if you are saved then you better act like it.
     
  7. jim62

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    I understand all that Christ has done
    for us, but what I'm saying is
    1. In every aspect of the Christian life there is God’s part and my part.

    2. God will never do my part.

    3. God does His part WHEN I am in the process of doing my part. to keep the flesh crucified, I have to walk in the Spirit, I have to put on the LORD Jesus.
     
  8. Alive in Christ

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    We all should have dead man somewhere...



    Here are the lyrics of a gosple song I have played many times...

     
  9. revmwc

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    Ephesians 5:18 actually is what we are told to do that coupled with 1 John 1:9 keeps the old man down. Confession of sin restores the walk (fellowship) we are to have with God because it places the control back in the Control (filling) of the Holy Spirit. Our part is to resist the devil and temptation but when we give in we are to confess sin and keep walking.
     
  10. jim62

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    Good!:thumbs:
     
  11. mont974x4

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    It is all God's part. Even when He gives instruction He enables us to obey. we cannot even want to obey without Him.

    Php 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. (NASB)


    Php 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
    Php 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. (NASB)
     
  12. jim62

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    Even Paul had a hard time keeping the old man dowRomans 7:14-25

    King James Version (KJV)

    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
    15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
    16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
    17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
    19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
    22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
    24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    n,
     
  13. jim62

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    I RESPECT your view, but I don't agree with it.
     
  14. mont974x4

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    We are new creations in Christ. The problem is learning how to act like it. That's why we are told to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". This is like a body builder, who already has all the muscles he needs, working out to gain strength and endurance. The difference is God is working in us to accomplish this. This is what He does as the vinedresser. This is why Romans 8 tells us:

    Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
    Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
    Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
     
  15. jim62

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    Like I said my friend, I respect your view, but I don't agree with it.
     
  16. mont974x4

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    I understand your view. Wanting to fear God and live a holy life as we are called to is something I do respect. We need to preach that more.

    The issue I had with my prof's at school, and the Arminian/Wesleyan theology they pushed, is the idea that man is capable of doing anything about it apart from God. That is what happens when we try to separate God's part from our part. Scripture tells us that no man seeks God. God draws us to Himself. Scripture tells us that our righteousness is filthy rags (I won't explain that term here). The righteousness of Christ covers us. This is the nature of propitiation. It justifies us, giving us a right standing before God.

    In Ezekiel we are told God will remove our hearts of stone and give us a heart of flesh. He is the one that accomplishes our salvation, from start to finish. We see that in Romans 8:28-30.

    Now, we have to live like it means everything to us. Grace is not an license to sin. Thankfully God makes it possible for us to walk in obedience. Are we listening to Him? Are we letting Him direct our steps? Or, are we making a mockery of the cross by not living like it matters? Are we allowing our flesh to rule us?

    Paul's struggle explains to us the duality of the saved man. Our eternal soul is saved and made new. This body, however, is still decaying and corrupted due to sin entering the world through Adam. That is why we must choose daily, even moment by moment, how we will behave.
     
  17. jim62

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    My friend when it comes to me, it's not about JIM, it's ALL about the LORD, AND HIM ONLY, Because in my flesh dwells no good thing.
     
    #17 jim62, May 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2012
  18. mont974x4

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    Brother, that is exactly my point. :jesus:
     
  19. freeatlast

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
    Be careful there as you are stepping on some hyper Cal toes. :laugh:
     
  20. jim62

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    Indwelling Sin a Fact

    Indwelling Sin a Fact: (Rom. 7:21) “I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. a). First, he says that sin is a “law.” b). Then it is a discovery, “I find a law.” c). He indicates the context of this discovery: “when I would do good.”

    d). He specifies the state and activity of this law of sin: “evil is present with me.”

    1. Indwelling Sin is a Law, a Working Principle:

    a. It is a directive rule or an operative principle that is effective within.

    b. As a moral rule, it directs and commands, regulating the mind, the will, the affections, in many ways.

    c. A secondary sense of a law is an inward principle which moves and inclines a person.
    (Like electricity or the law of nature which moves things toward its own end. Rom. 7:21, 23)

    d. A law has dominion, (Rom. 7:1), it lords over a man. (Sin often has dominion over the believer, because we allow its rule. Consider
    Romans 6:11-14; Gal. 5:16-24.)

    f. Sin has power to give rewards and punishment: The pleasures of sin are its rewards. (Heb. 11:25-26) Guilt, soul destruction, despair and a host of things are its punishments that are inherent in sin itself.

    2. The Human Heart is the Seat of Sin:
    (Gen. 6:5; Eccl. 9:3; Matt. 15:19; Gen. 8:21; Lk 6:45; Jere. 19:9-10; Matt. 13:35-38)

    a. In Scripture the heart is often used as a synonym -- sometimes for the mind, and understanding, sometimes for the will, sometimes for the conscience, and sometimes for the whole soul, including the affections.

    b. Generally, it denotes the whole soul of man and all the faculties of it.

    c. The mind inquires what is good or evil, and judges ethically what shall be done or refused.

    (But is our mind taught by the Word?)
    d. Then the affections like or dislike, cleaving to one thing or having aversion to another.

    e. The conscience warns and determines (but can only act upon what the belief system is).

    f. Then, the will acts basically upon what the mind, affections, and conscience have given direction to do.
    g. The heart is deceitful, full of abominations, contradictions, and constant sinful desires. (Heb. 3:12-13; Jere. 17:9)

    3. Indwelling Sin Within Works its Enmity:(Rom. 8:5-8, 5:10; Eph. 2:15; Gal. 5:16-17;

    a. Sin is universal in its enmity against God.

    b. Sin is universal in its enmity against the soul.


    Here we find a universal warfare in the soul of man. The mind contends with its own stubbornness, obstinacy, and perversity. Every affection deals with its own willfulness, sensuality, and aversion of God. Thus our knowledge is imperfect, our obedience is weak, our love is mixed in its virtues, our fear of the Lord is not pure, and our delight in God is not free and noble.
    Sin never gives up in spite of all the powerful opposition it encounters from the law of the gospel. If only we believed this we would be less careless in yielding to this enemy of sin within us. We would be far more vigilant over our hearts, or souls. (Prov. 4:23; I Cor. 16:13)


    4. Indwelling Sin Has Great Power:(Gal. 5:17; Rom. 7:23; James 4:1; I Pet. 2:11; Rom. 5:6; 3:9-18; Isa. 1)

    a. Sin opposes God by lust: (Gal. 5:16; Rom 13:14; Gen. 6:5; Gal. 6:1)

    b. Sin opposes God by warfare: (Isa. 57:5; Rom. 7:21-23; Rom. 7:18; I Pet. 2:11)

    c. Sin opposes God by leading the soul captive:
    (Rom. 7:23; Psa. 19:12-13; 139:23-24; II Tim. 2:26)

    d. Sin generates anger, lack of judgment or madness: (Jere. 2:24; Hosea 8:9; Jere. 50:38; 44:4)

    5. Indwelling Sin is Very Deceitful: (Heb. 3:13; Jere. 17:9;
    Jere. 4:22; Eph. 4:22; 2:1-3; II Thess. 2:10)

    a. Sins’s Deception of the mind:
    Scripture emphasizes that deceit is most often the origin of sinning. Sin proceeds only when deception goes before it. (see I Tim. 2:13-14).
    Eve said, “The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat” Gen. 3:13.
    (See Rev. 12:9; 20:10)

    The basis for the efficacy of deceit is its effect upon the mind. For sin deceives the mind. When sin attempts to enter into the soul by some other way (such as affections), the mind checks and controls it. But when deceit influences the mind, the chance of sinning multiplies. The mind’s office is to guide, to direct, to choose, and to lead. We see the danger of sin’s deception of the mind by examining the general nature of deceit.
    The mind is the leading faculty of the soul. When the mind fixes upon an object or course of action, the will and affections follow suit. (See man’s fall, Genesis 3.)


    b. Sin’s chief means of deception is temptation:
    In James 1:14-15 we see that
    • sin deceives • it entices • it conceives
    • it develops • lastly, it finishes, brings death!

    c. Sin diverts the mind by emphasizing “cheap grace.”
    (Titus 2:11-14; Phil. 1:27; Rom. 12:2; Rom. 6:1-2)
    Sin twists grace to achieve its ends, and pleads for the
    abuse of grace... “a little sin won’t hurt, you know!”

    d.Sin deceives the mind from seeing the true state and
    condition of the soul (of people)
    in the world.

    e. The deceitfulness of sin argues falsely about the pressing circumstances of life. (Matt. 26:41)

    f. Sin feeds the soul with false promises and purposes:
    (Acts. 24:25; Prov. 4:23-27; Psa. 23:3)

    6. The Mind is Diverted from Specific Duties:(Heb. 2:1; I Sam. 15:13; Mk 13:37; Haggai 1:5, 7;
    Heb. 6:11-12; II Pet. 1:5; Heb. 5:11; Prov. 19:24)

    Sin persuades the mind to deal in generalities and to avoid particular duties. The mind feels content in performance of its duties while secretly sinning. The mind often becomes perfunctory in its performance of duties. Sin distracts the mind from maintaining its diligence. Then sin distracts the mind by using deceit to take it by surprise.


    7. We Experience Enticement of Indwelling Sin:
    (James 1:14; Micah 2:1; II Pet. 2:24; I Jh 2:15-17;
    Jere. 4:14)

    Sin deceives to entice and to entangle the affections. It does it by: a). making use of the tendency of the mind to be distracted toward sin, diverted away from the dangers of false reasoning and pretenses, b). Sin proposes to be desirable, for it gilds over an object with a thousand pretenses which the imagination promotes as pleasures of sin. (Heb. 11:25; James 5:5; Eph. 2:3).


    It hides the danger associated with the sin. Sin covers the hook with bait, and spreads the food over the net.


    8. We Experience the Conception of Indwelling Sin:
    (James 1:15; II Cor. 11:2-3; Eph. 4:19)

    The will is the cause of obedience or disobedience, for in the end all moral actions are willed. The will actualizes sin or obedience. The will consents to sin! (In the Christian’s heart there is the desire not to sin, Rom. 7:21-23.) The will consents to sin as a result of sin’s deception. Sin often abuses grace to deceive the will. Sin even alleviates guilt in order to deceive the will. When sin deceives the mind it paints what is absolutely evil as having an apparent good appearance. (I King 21:2, consider King Saul.) Rationally, the will is guided by the mind and creates an appetite for sin. The will is also excited by the emotions. (Eph. 2:1-3; 5:11; Rom. 13:12)
     

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