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I Know I Am Elect Because...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by swaimj, Oct 2, 2008.

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  1. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    How do you, as an individual, know that you are one of God's elect? All calvinists invited to answer. Scripture please!
     
    #1 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I have been given repentance and faith from God to turn from my sin and call in faith on the Lord Jesus. This is the "effect" of the working of the holy Spirit of God inwardly (the cause). Acts 20:21 It is not a capability of the unregenerate man.

    And only God's beloved chosen ones from eternity past are given that new nature allowing such. So I rest assured of my election, proven by the work of God evident.
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, Oct 2, 2008
  3. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    I was born again on May 18, 1963. I elected to call on Him and ask for forgiveness; He elected to forgive me and save me.
     
    #3 Jon-Marc, Oct 2, 2008
  4. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Me too. :laugh:
     
    #4 ReformedBaptist, Oct 2, 2008
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Cute. Got a chuckle out of it. Sadly, some people believe that. What a disgraceful view of God and haughty view of man.

    Now, deal with biblical election not your clever nonsense. ;) Election is not talking about YOUR choice and then God (the cosmic vending machine) spits out his choice, subservient to your will.
     
    #5 Dr. Bob, Oct 2, 2008
  6. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I know I'm elect because God has turned my heart to Him. Without that, I would be an enemy of God.

    Here's a great blog post I read this morning. I thought you might enjoy it:

    From http://eatbible.org/post/52703704/one-reason-why-i-love-sovereign-election


    I have a friend staying at my house right now, because God tossed a tree on his house. Pretty sweet looking. Right now he is sitting in the living room watching some UFC reality show and I am sitting at the kitchen table, sipping some coffee and preparing the handout for tomorrow’s lecture on Jesus being the only God. (which I will try to post here, tomorrow).

    We were talking about a few things and God’s attributes came up. We began to think about God’s Sovereignty over salvation. There are many people who love Jesus that hold to man’s free will to decide whether or not they want to be saved. I am bound by Ephesians 1 and 2, that clearly says that God chose us before the foundation of the world and that we are dead in our sin and it takes God changing my will to sin and death to cling to Christ. (we can save the ‘calvinism’ debate for another day, like, maybe never. I don’t have time for that dead horse.)

    Here is one reason that I love sovereign election over the idea of man’s complete free will in salvation.

    If you hold to free will, you are concluding that all babies that die, go to hell.

    You have to, because you would not be able to say that God would impose on someone’s will to become a Christian. See? If you stay within this idea, this would be the conclusion, unless you say something else. But what is left to go to? What you go to is God acting on their behalf. Which is God’s way of salvation. He acts on our behalf. Did God ask me if it was ok that Jesus died for me? Did God ask me if it was ok that he worked many events in my life so I could hear the Gospel and respond? Of course not. He always acts first.

    Sovereign grace is wonderful, in that, there is the providence and plan of God to save babies. Does he save all babies? I don’t know. Does he decide to save some babies? No idea.

    I do know that you have to respond to the Gospel with faith (Romans 10:9-10, Romans 10:14-17). John the Baptist leaped for joy in the womb when pregnant Mary came by him in the womb(Luke 1:41-44). And Psalm 115:3 says our God does whatever He wants.

    I do know also, that our God is a good and gracious God. And if he wants to show up in the womb and have a baby believe, our God is fully capable. (John 1:12-13)

    You might think, “But babies don’t have the mental faculties and capabilities to respond to the Gospel.” I would contend, that you didn’t either. We are dead in our sins (Ephesians 2:1-3). Our hearts our hard and consider the things of God to be foolish and we cannot understand them apart from God acting. Acts 16 is clear that God enables us to understand what is being spoken. (Acts 16:14)

    That is one reason why I love and rejoice in Sovereign Election.
     
    #6 annsni, Oct 2, 2008
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Why only calvinists? Do non-calvinists not believe "the elect" is a biblical concept?
     
    #7 Grasshopper, Oct 2, 2008
  8. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    That's great advice Dr. Bob. You should take it yourself. I asked for a reason that you are sure you are elect WITH SCRIPTURE. You gave me several reasons (typical Calvinist responses) with Acts 20:21 which is, as far as I can tell, completely irrelevant to anything you said. From Annsi, we got a link to another sight with lots of argumentation but no scripture. And from RB we got a hearty "Amen" to what Dr. Bob said, but no scripture.

    There are several passages of scripture in the NT that speak of election. Seems like one of them (at least) should back up what you guys are saying, but, since you don't use any of them, perhaps they don't.

    I'll watch for a real, biblical response for my question from you guys!
     
    #8 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  9. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Anyone is free to answer but I thought Calvinists might tend to have more interest in the question, and judging by the response, I think I am right.
     
    #9 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    God reached down in the vast depravity of my heart and provided me with the grace to see my sinful condition. I responded to His offer of grace and He has begun a work in me.
     
    #10 Revmitchell, Oct 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2008
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    The reason this person cannot know that all babies are saved is because she/he must admit that not everyone is "elect", therefore some babies will go to hell.

    If you believe in total depravity, then you must believe that an infant is depraved and headed for hell unless God elects him to salvation. This is no different than the Augustinian belief of original sin, in which is the teaching that all are born under the curse of sin because we have inherited Adam's punishment of death. This is why Catholics baptize infants.

    I do not believe in original sin. I believe infants are innocent until the age of accountability, which only God knows. I use this scripture to back up my belief.

    Rom 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

    This one also:
    2Sa 12:23 "But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."


    How sad not to know what happens to babies that die.
     
    #11 Amy.G, Oct 2, 2008
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    This is how I know I'm elect.


    1Jo 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


    I believe in the name of the Son of God, therefore I have eternal life. Only the elect receive eternal life, therefore I'm elect.
     
    #12 Amy.G, Oct 2, 2008
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I believe all who are genuine Christians are "elect" of God (Romans 8:22-31, Eph. 1; I Cor. 12:3; John 1:12-13, 2:23-3:21, 5:21, 6:37, 8:34-36, 10:1-5, 10:14-17, Matt. 11:27, I Pet. 1:3)

    I know I am saved because of the presence of the indweling Holy Spirit of God (Romans 8:16).

    Since I know I am saved, then I know I must be elect.

    BTW, I don't consider myself a "Calvinist". I consider myself a Christian dedicated to understanding the Word of God. If Calvin, or anyone else, has stated beliefs consistent with scripture, then I will be in agreement.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #13 canadyjd, Oct 2, 2008
  14. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Consider the implications of this passage: I Thess 1:2-5 (from the Net Bible)
    Two observations:
    1. The certainty that the Thessalonians were elect was not their own certainty, but Paul's.

    2. His certainty was based upon faith, love, and endurance. No, let's restate that. His certainty was based upon THEIR faith, love, and endurance. And their faith, love, and endurance was evidenced by the work of the Holy Spirit displayed in power and deep conviction.

    These verses contradict two key assertions often put forth by calvinists. First, these verses refer to THEIR faith. Calvinists deny that people possess faith. Second, the certainty of election does not belong to the person who is elect, but it belongs to other believers (in this case, Paul) who observe the power of God in the life of the elect.

    Any reaction to these observations?
     
    #14 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Amy I know you are not a Calvinist;but I thought you'd be more biblical than what your post revealed.

    Is a baby in need of salvation or not?The Bible does not teach your belief of the innocence of babies.Christ,the Lamb of God is the only Innocent One.

    Do you believe Romans 5:12-19 or not? Don't dare reject it because it reminds you of Augustinian beliefs.
     
    #15 Rippon, Oct 2, 2008
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Guilty, spiritually dead people are in need of saving. Infants don't fall into either camp.
     
    #16 webdog, Oct 2, 2008
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists do possess faith.They certainly have faith;but it didn't originate with them.God gave it to them.They did not,could not, generate it themselves.

    Secondly,the certainty of election needs to be one of personal examination -- "Let a man examine himself to see if he be in the faith." "Make your calling and election sure."
     
    #17 Rippon, Oct 2, 2008
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Whether you have inherited a chainsaw...or I give you a chainsaw...who cuts down the tree? Either way it is you...or it isn't. I believe God gives the ability for faith (which repentance is part of). I just believe it is part of God's creation of mankind.
     
    #18 webdog, Oct 2, 2008
  19. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Rippon, if people do not possess faith, why did Paul speak to the Thessalonian Christians and refer to "your faith". You are making an assertion that is not in the text.
     
    #19 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  20. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    The text in II Peter which speaks of making your calling and election sure is very interesting. We make our calling and election sure by doing the things that Peter lists in that passage. Peter concludes with "...if you do these things, you will never fall or stumble". Here again, election is not a certainty in the way that calvinists have expressed it on this thread.
     
    #20 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
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