I lay down my Life for the Sheep !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Christ has already stated specifically for whom He laid down His life for, do you believe Him is the question ? Jn 10:11-15

    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

    13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

    14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    Therefore the OUR SINS in 1 Cor 15:3 would refer to the Sheep !

    Christ says that He knows His Sheep Vs 14 which we understand to meaneth He foreknew them all Rom 11:2

    2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    And it should also be made clear that one does not have to be a believer in Christ to be one of His Sheep, for this is understood by Christ statement ' Other Sheep I have that are not of this fold [ethnic jews, but of the gentiles also] of which He says, them also I must bring, and they SHALL HEAR MY VOICE, which is the Gospel of their Salvation, and by that Hearing, Faith comes. Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    At that time, those Sheep in the gentiles, were unbelievers and Idolaters, but they were still His Sheep that He had. He had them because the Father had gave them to Him, and this ensured that they would Hear His Voice and Believe, another way of saying what He said in Jn 6:37

    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    They are given to Christ before they come to Him or Believe in Him !

    Yet many deceivers would have us believe that one is not a Sheep of Christ until after they believe, which has now been proven to be error, a lie, by Christ's very words ! " Other Sheep I have" yet being uncalled by the Gospel as of yet to Gospel Faith and Obedience.

    Note: Even the unbelieving Sheep are never the goats, that shall hear this words soon Matt 25:33,41

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    And it is a lie, and cannot be supported by scripture that Christ laid down His Life for the goats , and He never said He did !
     
  2. webdog

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    So, you are a Jew?
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    Deal with the post, this is not about me ! But who Jesus stated He died for !
     
  4. webdog

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    Since the passages you provided are dealing with the jews I wanted to know as to whether or not I should listen to you. Don't want to be taught by someone Christ didn't die for.
     
    #4 webdog, Sep 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2012
  5. billwald

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    >Yet many deceivers would have us believe that one is not a Sheep of Christ until after they believe, which has now been proven to be error, a lie, by Christ's very words ! " Other Sheep I have" yet being uncalled by the Gospel as of yet to Gospel Faith and Obedience.

    There is no objective test to identify the other sheep because there is no test to identify the elect persons or to identify the regenerate persons.

    It is just as logical to conclude the null case is "elect" as to assume the null case is "reprobate." But preachers and churches can't milk the cows by preaching that "elect" is the null case.
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    No, but jesus did give His life to save BOTH Jews and gentiles, one flock, one Shepherd!
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    web

    Some of them are jews, those in Jn 10:16 referred to as other sheep are not jews, and back to the original point, Jesus specifically states who He died for.
     
  8. webdog

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    Wrong again. From the OT to the NT it is established the sheep refer to Jews. Verse 16 is not referencing non jews but the jews from the other tribes of israel (Matt. 10:6), not the jews living in judah at the time.
     
  9. SovereignMercy

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    What was Abraham before God called him out of Ur?... A gentile. All of God's elect are His sheep. Read the passages below.

    For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes. For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

    For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles- if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
     
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    webd

    No its not wrong. Jesus said that the other Sheep will hear that are not of this fold, meaning jewish fold. Paul again refers to that when He days when turning from the jews, that He was now going to the Gentiles and that they shall hear it Acts 28:28

    Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

    This is in confirmation to what Jesus said in Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    I am not going to argue with you about this, it is quite obvious to me you are deluded !
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    Paul, inspired by God also tells us specifically whom Christ died for here Eph 5:25

    25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;[/B]

    So , it is appropiate to understand Paul in 1 Cor 15:3 to mean as OUR SINS as the Church of God !

    This Would correspondingly mean that the Sheep in Jn 10:11-16 and the Church of Eph 5:25 are all the same group of People that Christ specifically died for !
     
  12. webdog

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    I see...we put John 10:16 into context using Acts 28:28 :rolleyes:

    You are right...this is a waste of time. Talking to a hyper calvinist is like talking to a brick wall :BangHead:
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    now you know how we "normal" calvinists feel!
     
  14. billwald

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    "Jew" is a word invented by non-Jews in the same way that "Christian" is a word invented by non-Christians.
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    yes, both by God!
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Acts 20:28

    28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

    The Church of God and the Sheep or Flock are the Same here. The word flock denotes Sheep, and Paul was speaking to the Ephesian Elders here Acts 20:17, not ethnic jews. The Church nor the Sheep are made up of all ethnic jews.

    BTW Paul later wrote to the Epesians this in His Letter Eph 2:14-19

    Now if it is then the Church, which Paul calls the Flock of God, which denotes Sheep,

    as here Matt 26:31

    31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

    The way some people erroneously understand and teach scripture, the Church of God, the Flock here in Acts 20:28 has to be made up of all ethnic jews, since only ethnic jews according to their false teaching can be Christ's Sheep, which not a shred of scripture supports that doctrine from hell !
     
  17. webdog

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    Use hyperbole much?
     
  18. webdog

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    So ...sheep "of the flock" realy means sheep "are the flock"? If the sheep of the flock are scattered...whats left in the flock?

    Interesting that jews started EVERY church of the dispersion...even in Ephesus...but that is probably not in the hyper cal textbook.
     
  19. SovereignMercy

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    Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
     
  20. webdog

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    Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
     

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