I need help...how do I know what is right?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by doodlebug, Mar 7, 2005.

  1. doodlebug

    doodlebug
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    I am really struggling today, and I am just barely clinging to a message we heard last night. It came out of 2 Chronicles 17&20. It was the story of Jehoshaphat, and how he faced all of these armies by having faith that God would see them through. The one verse said something about it not being his battle's but God's battle. The way it was told was that Jehoshaphat basically took his people out in the battlefield and had them form a choir and just sing. I am standing in a battlefield in my church and I am just singing my heart out. But, as the enemy is beginning to enclose me, my faith is waning. Why am I doubting God will protect me?? Why do I feel like I have to 'do something'?
    The big question, that I cannot seem to get a straight answer on -- Is there a time as a Christian that it is biblically sound to stand up for what is right according to God's Word even if it goes against what your pastor has advised you to do?? And, when another Christian does wrong, is out of God's will with their actions, and sins against me, do I have to just 'take' it??? I have been studying rebuke, and I've also studied about how to treat our enemies. I have prayed for those who have used me despitefully, and I have prayed for those who do wrong to me. I have gladly walked two miles when they asked me to go one with them. I know I love these Christians who are persecuting my husband and me, because I know that no matter what, I pray for them, I would help them if they asked, I even have very comfortable conversations with them. I wonder why God is allowing these people who are Christians to persecute us, cause conflict and division, gossip, and yet still be allowed to hold leadership positions where they are influencing new Christians and non-believers. Even our pastor is afraid of the majority vote this couple holds. My pastor's wife made the comment to me like this -- the Lord only punishes His children, so perhaps they aren't His. So, could this be happening because they aren't truly Christians?? And if so, how would I even know to handle the situation that way?
    *sigh* I'm a wounded soldier, and I'm now sitting in the middle of our battlefield unsure though I feel God is in my midst, as He has been speaking to me through His Word. I'm singing, but my voice is starting to fade.....what do I do? Please pray for me and my church. Pray that our pastor finds courage and seeks God's will, and doesn't let other church leaders sway him to do their will. Any advice, bible verses, or experiences would be helpful. Thanks.
     
  2. csmith

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    ...by His stripes we are healed. Jesus had to take a lashing in order that his healing blood would flow. The balsam tree is whipped and cut so that a healing salve can be withdrawn. We are God's children and sometimes we must experience beatings, lashings, and other abuses. If one is truly yielded to God, good can come from it. Don't forget God's providence. He may have purposely placed you where you are so that you can look back years from now and praise God for his mercy and grace.
     
  3. Servent

    Servent
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    Matt.18:21,22
     
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    doodlebug

    Soemthing doesn't sound right.

    You expect the pastor to place his job in jeopardy, because you feel "like I have to 'do something'?".

    You do not indicate that you have gone to the person. Nor, do you indicate that you have taken elders to the person. But, you do indicate a need to have the pastor and his wife intervene.

    Maybe I am missing what you are trying to say.
     
  5. doodlebug

    doodlebug
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    Thanks for the responses. You are right ElGuero, there is a lot I didn't say because there is no way to express all the goings on of my church and the leadership. I do not expect my pastor to place his job in jeopardy, but I do expect him to do what he says he feels the Lord leads him to do, and what is biblically sound according to our beliefs. I have gone person to person -- the people say they don't have a problem with us, but their actions speak louder than their words. I have gone to our 2 deacons (we don't have elders), and the result is that one deacon is so new, he doesn't know what to do, and the head deacon is so busy with his job that he doesn't even know what is going on (he has been to one business meeting in 8 months). The head deacon is the brother of the man in the couple I'm speaking of. When approached with a problem involving his brother, his first response (to every member of our church) is "That's my brother", and it's pretty much down hill from there. The only thing that has not happened is that it has not been taken before the church. I have been counseled in the past by our pastor and his wife on the issues at hand. My husband has been counseled by our pastor, and has attempted to make things right between him and our persecuters, however, they say everything is fine, and then attempt to undermine our work for the Lord. It's not just us, but they have gone after the new deacon and his wife, the pastor, and other members of our church, trying to thwart (and sometimes succeeding) God's work. I do not want my pastor to go up against them for me. I am concerned for our church. The things that are coming up (not just regarding myself and my husband) are going to possibly split our church unless our pastor and the two deacons can agree and back each other with the decisions that are going to be made. I just want our pastor to do what God wants him to do, and not worry about his job. If God is in this, his job will be safe.
    I do want to update this thread though. I prayed all morning, and know others must have been praying too, because I went to the church to pick up some donations (I was in route to deliver them this afternoon), and noticed the pastor was home. I walked over to his house, and asked if he had a few minutes, and felt God was present in that moment, so I spoke to him about my fears. I felt like I could be more frank than I ever had been, and I didn't hold anything back. I know God is working, and I know it's all going to be fine. We have a few major battles ahead, but I know that if we can get through them, God has wonderful things planned in the near future. Thanks for those who have prayed for our situation, and I ask that you continue to pray this week, as our next business meeting is Wednesday. Thanks again for the responses. God Bless.
     
  6. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. (KJV)

    Each Christian, pastors are no exception, must follow the clearly revealed will of God as given through His Word. We are all ultimately responisible to God.

    It is always biblically sound to stand up for what is right according to God's Word. However, I would be very cautious of standing against the God-given leadership of the church without first going to them and trying to gain an understanding of what and why they are making the decisions that you do not understand.

    The simple fact is, you probably are not privy to all of the information that your pastor has available to him. His decisions may very well be based upon information that he cannot share with you at this time; perhaps never.

    If your pastor has been trustworthy in the past, I would suggest that you allow him to handle the situation as he feels he should. After all, he is the one who must stand before God and give account for the church. Hebrews 13:17

    According to the Word of God, if someone sins against you, you must forgive them and move on.
    (Ephesians 4:32, Colossians 3:12-13)
    Now, you don't have to stay in that church and put up with all of the nonsense. But, if you choose to stay, you must forgive them when they wrong you.

    You would handle this situation like you would any other when the parties involved are not saved. You pray for them with the realization that Satan has blinded their eyes and they cannot see what they are doing. You let your light shine so brightly that you have a testimony above reproach. (Matthew 5:16)

    You must lift your pastor and deacons up through prayer and seek out ways to encourage them. I would recommend a Pastor Appreciation Sunday real soon so he knows that the majority of folks are behind him.

    I've learned in my ministry that, when it seems like "everyone" is against me, it is usually only 1 or 2 at the most who are making a lot of noise. It has been my experience to go directly to those complaining. Thety either get right, or they go away mad. Unfortunately, I have experienced the latter a few times. But, God always replaced them with good faithful folks who love Him.
     
  7. benz

    benz
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    Peter asks Jesus, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times but up to seventy times seven" (Matthew 18:21-22).

    seventyx7x7= as many times as it takes...

    "Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" (Matthew 5:12)

    Jesus said that we will be forgiven in the same way we forgive others. Verse: For if you forgive people their trespasses, that is, their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go and giving up resentment, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespassses, their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go and giving up resentment, neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses." Mat. 6:14,15 (Amplified).

    ...hope it helps... I had to personally forgive an intimate betrayal from my ex best friend.. took allot to forgive her.. but i felt it was what God wanted me to do.. i felt good afterwards...
     
  8. mountainrun

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    My wife and I very recently went through an experience in our church where the pastor would not show up for work and his compulsive spending habit drove him to the brink of bankruptcy.

    When we brought the slacking to the attention of the deacons, they tried to covertly deal with the absenteeism, to no avail.

    The money problem led the pastor to announce his resignation to the deacons.

    Not because of the sin of it, but to find a better paying job.

    Instead, the membership voted almost unanimously to give him $2,000 to get caught up on the payments on his idols, as I put it, and to allow him to draw a full time wage for three years and only show up twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday so he could work a full time job outside the church in order to pay off his bills.

    I warned the members that you cannot cure a complusive spender by giving him more to spend.

    True to form the spending continued, in secret of course.

    Within 6 months the man had purchased a pickup, hiding it in his garage, a $2500 guitar, and a riding John Deere lawn mower.

    At the end of a year he was gone, money and all.

    Long before he left, people who didn't even know about the new toys knew they had made a huge mistake in what they did.

    I knew about all these things and more and saw that it would do no good to tell anyone that the problem was even worse than before with the huge increase in income.

    Here is my advise...

    Sit back, take it, do nothing and say nothing.
    God will bring the truth to light, not you.

    If you do otherwise, you will be viewed as the cause of the problem.

    There will be division and conflict in your church over the matter.
    The worst thing is that relationships will be permanently damaged within the body.

    Trust Him.

    Been there, done that.

    MR
     
  9. Mommyperson

    Mommyperson
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    Here is my advise...

    Sit back, take it, do nothing and say nothing.
    God will bring the truth to light, not you.

    If you do otherwise, you will be viewed as the cause of the problem.

    How can sitting back and taking it help ?

    I'm not so sure that sitting back and taking it is the best option. I'd bring to light the situation and if it wasn't addressed promptly KNOWING there's a problem that can cause serious division within the church body..I'd leave the church. When someone can cause this kind of trouble,it's time to look for a church that stand solid. Weathering storms as a whole is not the same as enabling someone to bring the house down on the heads of the innocent.

    In 2 Thess chapter 3 there is a warning about idleness.. I think this applies.

    The congregation as a whole needs to put on the armor of God
    (Ephesians 6) to stand firm against the fleshly pull of sin within and out of the church.

    Who wants to attend a church thats divided?
     
  10. cindig2

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    No one should ever go against the Word of God, even if they are the pastor, even if you don't know all the facts. There is never a situation, no matter what the circumstances that a person should go against the Word of God.
     
  11. mountainrun

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    I can say to sit back and take it because Jesus said to sit back and take it, Mommyperson.

    Turn the other cheek and do NOTHING, doodlebug.

    The warning against idleness in Thess. is about not working for a living. It does not advocate jumping into a church dispute.

    It may be time to look for another church if your pastor has no spine in the midst of conflict.

    He should always do right even at the risk of his paycheck, contrary to what others seem to think.


    MR
     

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