I need to mellow out

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by mozier, May 13, 2003.

  1. mozier

    mozier
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    Hello, everyone!

    I have come to the conclusion that I need to mellow out.

    Most of you good people here know that I am a former Roman Catholic, and I recently slid back to it, only to repent and find my way back. But as I grow in my walk as a Christian, I find that I have become something that I just cannot be: a rabid Anti-Catholic. I do not want to be this.

    Make no mistake, everyone: I am no fan of Roman Catholicism. I do not believe that I will ever be able to let go of the hurt and pain of my seminary years, and I just cannot reconcile what I have learned from Scripture with what I learned from Roman Catholic teaching. But with that said, I have to get off this idea that the Roman Catholic Institution is the Great Whore of Babylon and that all Roman Catholics are going to Hell. Deep down, I know this not to be true. And I have to stop saying such things.

    The truth is, I have been saying this (and other things) out of hurt and anger. Even if my anger is justified (and I do believe it is), I am still in no position to say things out of spite. Instead, I know that as a Christian, I have to be straightforward and honest and not imitate others who really have an axe to grind against the Roman Catholic Church (there, I just called it a "church" for the first time here. That is progress!), like Jack Chick and David Cloud. I can express my disagreements without having to resort to slanderous and inflammatory statements.

    So from now on, everyone, if I have my disagreements with Roman Catholicism, I will keep it civil and with respect to those here. I will stay on topic, not make things up about the church, and most of all --- I will be fair. And mellowed out ;)

    mozier
     
  2. raymond

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    Mozier>>>>
    So from now on, everyone, if I have my disagreements with Roman Catholicism, I will keep it civil and with respect to those here. I will stay on topic, not make things up about the church, and most of all --- I will be fair. And mellowed out <<<<<

    Mozier, your post makes me wonder about a million things. First of all: its tone. It is written very warmly. I can appreciate that when I compare it to what others here write, including yours truly.

    May I ask you, since you are the one who posts the Jack Chick tracts, if that is the 'old mozier' or the 'new mozier'. You could be posting them in order to show what distortions they are, or because you think they are 'right on'.

    Your post seems to indicate that you think
    some anti-catholics 'make things up'. Anyone in particular?

    Was your journey out of Catholicism because you preferred the Baptist over Catholic moral stands on e.g. artificial birth control, celibacy, divorce,masturbation, homosexuality, ordination of women .....or was it because you could not reconcile doctrines.............or was it because a Catholic offended you or hurt you?


    Whatever your reason might have been, I can say, it was truly our loss and a great tragedy. The Church needs people like you.

    I am sorry,

    your brother

    [ May 13, 2003, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: raymond ]
     
  3. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
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    Mozier --

    I applaud your post and I will admit that I need to take lesson from you. From time to time, I can get rather ascerbic with Protestants, especially Protestant ministers, out of my frustration caused by them keeping me out of the Church for 25 years. But that is another story for a private post, if you wish.

    Anyhow, could I ask you what you experienced in seminary which has caused you so much sorrow and anger against the Church?

    If you do not wish to discuss it, I will certainly understand. Or you can send me a private post.

    Cordially in Christ,

    Brother Ed
     
  4. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    Why? I'll agree that you shouldn't like Chick or be like him, but what's wrong with calling the RCC by it's Scriptural name?

    BTW, CC, are you ever going to get back to the Lutheran Christening thread?

    [ May 13, 2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura in 2003 ]
     
  5. WPutnam

    WPutnam
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    Why? I'll agree that you shouldn't like Chick or be like him, but what's wrong with calling the RCC by it's Scriptural name?</font>[/QUOTE]Oh, you are really so sure that the "Whore of Babylon" is the "scriptural name of the Catholic Church"?

    I would like to see your basis for such a conclusion.

    Here is some reading for you:

    http://www.catholic.com/library/hunting_the_whore_of_babylon.asp

    And............

    http://www.catholic.com/library/whore_of_babylon.asp

    And for good measure, I include this one as well:

    http://www.catholic.com/library/was_peter_in_rome.asp

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)

    [ May 13, 2003, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: WPutnam ]
     
  6. DanielFive

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    Mozier,

    I'm really pleased to read your post. I think we have had similar experiences since our conversion. When I got saved I left the Catholic Church and went to a very anti-RC Church where the christians believed the pope to be the anti-christ and the RC church to be the great whore of Babylon.

    There are quite a few Christians who believe this, and they are entitled to that belief but I don't think this be at the centre or the forefront of what a church is about.

    I spent two-and-a-half years in the church, and had a lot of things to think about and stumblingblocks to get over that I feel were totally unnecessary, this robbed me of a lot of the joy of salvation.

    I've been where you were and read all the Chick tracts and to an extent believed what he wrote.
    Eventually, for the sake of my family (who are still catholic) and because I had to admit to myself that deep down I didn't really believe this stuff, I left the Church and became a Baptist.

    I have no regrets about leaving, it makes witnessing to Catholics a lot easier.

    Its very tempting to harbour deep resentment towards the Catholic Church because it still has a psychological hold on me to an extent. I just try to remember that it was within the Catholic Church that I grew up and learned about Christ. I thank the Lord for this priviledge even though I have left the RCC and found what for me is a true faith in Christ.

    I'll look forward to reading more of your posts in future.

    God Bless

    Enda.
     
  7. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    Well, lets see, this whore is called MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Tell me, who are the daughters of the Roman Catholic Church and what do both you and I think of them?
     
  8. trying2understand

    trying2understand
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    I'd love to see a "Chick style" tract with someone standing before the Judgement Throne stuttering, "but... but..., but..." with God thundering, "My Church is not a whore!"
     
  9. mozier

    mozier
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    Thank you, everyone, for your kind words here and for your understanding. [​IMG]

    I am just so sick and tired of being angry at the Roman Catholic Church all the time. It is getting in the way of my Christian walk, and I don't need that in my life anymore. Though I do believe that the whole church is wrong, I also know that there are many good Christians in it and I will leave it up to God to decide who is who in there.

    As for my seminary experience, I can sum it up in three words, and I will leave it at that: Goodbye, Good Men.


    mozier
     
  10. raymond

    raymond
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    mozier&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;As for my seminary experience, I can sum it up in three words, and I will leave it at that: Goodbye, Good Men. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    Dear Mozier,

    Being scandalized by evil done by Catholics priests is a heavy cross for anyone to bear. Particularly when you are trying to take your Faith seriously, as I am sure you were. I have no idea how I might react in the same situation.

    Although you probably already have, I encourage you to 'rat out' the scoundrels. Even if you feel no obligation to the Catholic Church, you should do it just for truth's sake. and for justice's. If you believed in revenge, which you probably don't, I would encourage you to do it for revenge's sake.

    Again, I am sorry.

    Luke 17:2

    your brother
     
  11. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Goodbye, Good Men.

    I read this book last summer when walking across the United States for the Pro-Life movement with Crossroads (http://www.all.org/crossroads), and it was very revealing. I remember finishing the book parked on the side of a US Highway beneath a railway overpass in the middle of Nebraska.
     
  12. neal4christ

    neal4christ
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    Carson,

    Just wondering something. Do you like to brag about yourself and your accomplishments?

    Neal

    [ May 16, 2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
  13. WPutnam

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    Now I am going to speak right up in defense of Carson, whom I have known for a few years, including his once activity in CARM.

    Look at the post you have just responded to and please lead me by the hand and show me how in the whole wide world you can stretch such a simple statement of Carson's into such an unjust accusation, couched in blatant innuendo as it is?

    Methinks I detect a tinge of jealousy on your part, noting the wonderful education, Carson is receiving, education that I hope and pray leads Carson to the priesthood!

    Shame on you, neal4christ, for such a display of obvious envy that is so unbecoming of a Christian! :(

    Carson, bless your heart, knowing how this message must have hurt...........

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+

    Not riches, but God.
    Not honors, but God.
    Not distinction, but God.
    Not dignities, but God.
    Not advancement, but God.
    God always and in everything.


    - St. Vincent Pallotti -
     
  14. thessalonian

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    WP,

    I agree. In criticizing Carson, he exposes his own faults. I find it even more amazing that he lashes out in a thread intended for reconcilliation. No class. :(

    Mozeir, God bless you for your thread. I will include you in my prayers. (You to neal4).
     
  15. trying2understand

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    You consider reading a book to be an "accomplishment"?
     
  16. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    So, Putman, you don't know who the RCC's daughters are?
     
  17. WPutnam

    WPutnam
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    Yes, I know who they are.

    They are the good Catholic women mothers, such as my own wife, who as my partner, we participated in the procreation of seven wonderful children, now adults, who have in turn, produced 15 beautiful grandchildren to date. [​IMG]

    Also included in my list are the good Catholic nuns, and I have known many, who are pillars in the church as well. My "tagline" below my signature is a quote from one of them...

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    Christ has no body now but yours;
    No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
    Yours are the eyes with which he looks
    Compassion on this world.
    Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good.
    Yours are the hands with which
    he blesses all the world.
    Christ has no body now on earth but yours.


    - St. Therese of Avila -

    [ May 14, 2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: WPutnam ]
     
  18. Carson Weber

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    Just wondering something. Do you like to brag about yourself and your accomplishments?

    Hi Neal,

    How am I supposed to respond to a question like that? Or, how would you respond to the same question if I were to direct it to you?

    This is comparable to, "Have you stopped masturbating?"

    It's embarrassing, and frankly, it involves a direct accusation - when, in all reality, such incrimination is really not necessary in the purpose of charity.

    So I will respond in this way, Neal:

    I do not believe that I have talked about or asserted my accomplishments boastfully, which is the definition Merriam-Webster gives to "brag".

    I do believe that I have "spoken" of an event in my life, of which I am fond of. When mozier mentioned Goodbye, Good Men, immediately, the scene (smells, sounds, everything) of finishing that book on that US highway in Nebraska came to my mind, and if you knew my personality, you would know that I am whimsical. I speak of what's on my mind immediately and even in a haphazard fashion. That's me - that's my personality. I'm an extremely outspoken individual - for better or for worse.

    I am the Sinner on this board. I am prideful, arrogant, unclean, and professedly vulgar. It would be a wonderful gift if I could see with my eyes the horrid state my soul is in.. just how far it is from the sanctity I am called to in Christ Jesus.

    Praised be to God that He has justified me in his blood and that he pours forth his grace daily so that I might carry my cross, reject the Satan, and put on Christ Jesus in the Spirit.

    What I do need most, Neal, is your prayer. Pray that I might be humble, that my pride might be extinguished, and that I might be conformed to Christ.

    As Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati has said in effect, "You will know your friends by whether they pray for you."

    http://www.worldyouthday.com.au/bgiorrio.html

    [ May 14, 2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]
     
  19. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    Nope, apparently you don't. They're the Protestant churches.

    Pontifex Coligny necem probat
     
  20. Glen Seeker

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    Sola,

    I think you got that wrong. Protestant churches are like the "Prodigal" son. They took their inheritance from the CC and went off to do their own thing.

    Not to worry though, you're still our brothers and we await your return to the "one fold, one shepherd."

    Aloha and God Bless [​IMG]
     

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