"I never knew you." So how do I get Him to know me?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jkdbuck76, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
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    "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

    So people always ask "do you know Christ?" Or "do you know Jesus?"

    My question: isn't it MORE important that He knows me rather than the other way around?

    My other question: how do I make sure He knows me?

    Like many, I don't want to hear our Lord tell me "I never knew you".

    Thoughts?
     
  2. preacher4truth

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    Great question. How do we know for certain?

    Can a man come to church, and come forward and beg Christ to forgive him of his miserable sins, believe in his heart in the resurrection, profess Him as Savior, live a changed life, only to be told by Him on that day "I never knew you?"
     
  3. JesusFan

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    3 main ways can "know" that we are really saved by grace of God...
    Holy Spirit bears inner witness that we are children of God
    Bible bears external witness, that we know saved by faith in Jesus Christ
    Apostles John/James agree also that real genuine faith alone saves us, by real faith MUST produce in some way a changed life, good works to reveal truly are saved now!
    that we aree NOT prefect, but new nature bent towards God, so will try to love and please Him now, and quick to repent/confess when we do sin!
     
  4. HankD

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    It's really very simple:

    Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

    Have the kind of faith that doesn't work iniquity (Lit. Lawlessness).

    HankD
     
    #4 HankD, Jun 15, 2011
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  5. preacher4truth

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    Yes, there are different types of faith. Only one is saving.

    But could my hypothesis come to a rude reality in the end, or not?
     
  6. JesusFan

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    yes, one can be deluded/faked into thinking has real faith in Jesus...

    Again though, there ARE concrete ways one CAN know that their faith is real, and that they are really saved!

    As Apostle paul sai dthat he "knew" whom he had believed in, jesus, and that same jesus would keep it for that day!

    Think those referred here in OP are those who believe in a false Gospel and false Jesus, who look "religious" but deny the cardinal truths of the Faith!
     
  7. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Matthew 9: 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.13But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

    Matthew 12:7
    If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

    Hosea 6:6
    For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

    1 Corinthians 13
    1 If I speak in the tongues[Or languages] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[ Some manuscripts body to the flames] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    Having faith in Him and not loving what He loved?
     
    #7 psalms109:31, Jun 15, 2011
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  8. Jkdbuck76

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    This is good brain food.

    It is time to think upon these things. I do not want to be self-deluded.
     
  9. HankD

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    Psalm 11:7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

    Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    HankD​
     
  10. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11
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    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    (Mat 7:21-23)

    Look to the text for the context. They were not looking to the imputed righteousness of Christ for their salvation. If God were to ask any believer why He should allow them access into His heaven, we would claim the sacrifice, blood & righteousness of Jesus Christ. These persons offered up the wood,hay & stubble of their own works that they had done "for Him", not what He did for them. Most often, a plain reading of the text will reveal an easily understood context.
     
  11. preacher4truth

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    It's not quite that pat. Certainly some stood there that professed faith in Jesus as Savior. Wood hay and stubble are descriptive words used to describe the works of the saved for Christ, that fell short. These works are not used determinitively as far as salvation is concerned. These are already saved believers.

    The text is not as plain as you state. The Sermon on the Mount has way more depth than this.
     
    #11 preacher4truth, Jun 15, 2011
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  12. michael-acts17:11

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    Please show this "certain" truth from the text we are discussing. If it is not there, then it is only presupposition on your part based on whatever theology you wish to embrace. When you don't take the context directly from the text as it is written, you are adding your own thoughts to the Word of God. This is the fastest route to false doctrine.
     
  13. Winman

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    Correct, these false believers were trusting in their works to save them and not Jesus.

    To believe in Jesus means to cast yourself upon him and rely completely on Jesus alone to save you.

    An analogy would be to be in a fire in a skyscraper. Firemen below call for you to jump, promising to catch you with a net. Some might try to climb down, this is not trusting. To believe means to jump off and rely completely on those firemen to catch you as they promised. But you do have to do something, you have to let go and jump. To know Jesus you need to come to him personally and cast youself upon him, placing your soul in his hands, trusting him to save you as he promised.

    Faith is not holding on, it is letting go.
     
  14. preacher4truth

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    Oh boy, here we go. :rolleyes:

    This from the guy that uses wood hay and stubble out of context? Please.

    Certainly they were in shock. Wonder why? After all that they've done and professed, they were lost.

    Many people today profess to know Him, do you think every one of them do?

    Uh. No.

    And there they will stand. Condemned.

    Sometimes the head God gave us is used for more than a hat-rack son. It's called plain common sense, which isn't so common anymore...obviously.

    The text isn't as pat and easy as you try to make it.

    Thus is the Sermon on the Mount.
     
    #14 preacher4truth, Jun 15, 2011
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  15. psalms109:31

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    Spurgeon on assurance

    Full assurance or imaginary flattery by Charles Spurgeon

    "There are those who are ready to be fully assured; there are others to whom it will be death to talk of it. There is a great difference between presumption and full assurance. Full assurance is reasonable: it is based on solid ground. Presumption takes for granted, and with brazen face pronounces that to be its own to which it has no right whatever. Beware, I pray thee, of presuming that thou art saved. If with thy heart thou dost trust in Jesus, then art thou saved; but if thou merely sayest, "I trust in Jesus," it doth not save thee. If thy heart be renewed, if thou shalt hate the things that thou didst once love, and love the things that thou didst once hate; if thou hast really repented; if there be a thorough change of mind in thee; if thou be born again, then hast thou reason to rejoice: but if there be no vital change, no inward godliness; if there be no love to God, no prayer, no work of the Holy Spirit, then thy saying, "I am saved," is but thine own assertion, and it may delude, but it will not deliver thee. Our prayer ought to be, "Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, with real faith, with real salvation, with the trust in Jesus that is the essential of faith; not with the conceit that begets credulity. God preserve us from imaginary blessings!… Nothing will stand the trial but this, “Do you renounce all confidence in everything but the finished work of Jesus, and do you come to Christ to be reconciled in him to God?” If you do not, then your dreams, and visions, and thoughts, are nothing but dreams, and visions, and thoughts, and will not serve you when you most need them."

    –Charles Spurgeon, "The Prayer of Jabez," Spurgeon's Sermons, Volume 17: 1881. (Grand Rapids, MI: Christian Classics Ethereal Library, 2002), pp. 265-266.
     
  16. psalms109:31

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    “Trembling sinner, look to Jesus” by Charles H. Spurgeon

    “Trembling sinner, look to Jesus, and thou art saved. Dost thou say, ‘My sins are many’? His atonement is wondrous. Dost thou cry, ‘My heart is hard’? Jesus can soften it. Dost thou exclaim, ‘Alas, I am so unworthy’? Jesus loves the unworthy. Dost thou feel, ‘I am so vile’? It is the vile Jesus came to save. Down with thee, sinner; down, down with thyself, and up with Christ, who hath suffered for thy sins upon Calvary’s cross.

    Turn thine eye thither; see Jesus only. He suffers. He bleeds. He dies. He is buried. He rises again. He ascends on high. Trust Him, and thou art safe. Give up all other trusts, and rely on Jesus alone, alone on Jesus, and thou shalt pass from death unto life.

    This is the sure sign, the certain evidence of the Spirit’s indwelling, of the Father’s election, of the Son’s redemption, when the soul is brought simply and wholly to rest and trust in Jesus Christ, who ‘hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’”

    –Charles H. Spurgeon, “Our Suffering Substitute: A Sermon on 1 Peter 3:18,” originally published in The Sword and The Trowel Magazine (1895),
     
  17. michael-acts17:11

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    Why do so many turn to Spurgeon for answers to the posted questions? He was not the inerrant final authority on spiritual matters. The Word of God, nothing added or removed, is our final authority.
     
  18. michael-acts17:11

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    All works that are not for God are wood, hay & stubble. Will an unbeliever's works survive the judgement? I think not. The difference between a believer's & an unbeliever's sinful works is in 1 Cor 3:15. The believer will be saved despite the works, but the unbeliever will not be saved.

    Instead of just denying my statement that the context can be taken from a reading of the text without discussing the actual text, explain where the text states that some who profess Jesus as Saviour will be denied salvation; as you have so asserted to be a certain truth.
     
  19. preacher4truth

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    Again, you're misrepresenting 1 Cor. 3. And misusing wood hay and stubble. This is the judment seat of Christ, not the judgment in Matthew 7.

    An unbelievers works are dung, not wood hay and stubble, staying strict to Scripture. That's Scriptural. Believers works are categorized in 1 Cor. 3:15, both in wood hay and stubble, and also in precious things. Both represent believers. You have to obey and know the context. This again is not unbelievers being judged. This is where you are getting things mixed up.

    I deny your statement because it's shallow and and does not distinguish the two Scriptural types of judgment; one for believers and reward, the other for the lost and their end. You are inter-mingling the two.

    Answer 2 simple questions, and apply them to Matthew 7:23:

    - Are there people who profess Jesus as their One and only Savior that are not truly His?

    - If not, where will they be in Matthew 7:23?

    Using logic and deduction is not unscriptural nor forbidden. Every solid biblically sound preacher I know of does this. It is actually God who gives us the ability to apply His Word accurately.

    Then there are others, who help facilitate the notion that Believers are dumb, illogical and they've earned this and it is not a badge of honor. Not only in the realm of intellect, but even in their shallow understanding, misapplication, and misinterpretation of the Scriptures themselves.

    Anyhow, they obviously named Him as Lord, Master. As do believers.

    There were others that named Him "Lord, Lord" in Scripture. They were not His. They are unsaved.
     
  20. michael-acts17:11

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    Okay, their works are dung that shall be burned with our wood, hay & stubble. It end result is the same, regardless of what we call it. All unrighteous works & the results of those works will be burned in the fervent heat that will destroy all of creation before God recreates all things anew. You are arguing semantics while positing the faulty theology that some who confess Christ will be damned to hell.

    I never combined the two judgments. We will be saved from His fiery wrath through the imputed righteousness of Christ. These called God by His title; they were not confessing faith in Christ. Even the demons believe & tremble, but such belief is not to salvation. The text reveals their faith in their own works. No one who accepts Jesus as their Saviour will suffer the eternal wrath of God. You still haven't shown where God will reject any who confess faith in Jesus Christ.


    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
    (2Pe 3:10-13)


    When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Mat 25:31-46)
     
    #20 michael-acts17:11, Jun 16, 2011
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