I now understand why some dislike the Calvinist deabte

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    There was a day not so long ago, that we had at least one C/A debate going on at all times. Many times we had 4 or 5 C/A debates at the same time.

    Some would say they hated them...

    They ( the ones that hated them) said it was the same thing over and over.

    Now I understand.:tonofbricks:

    All we have had for a month now (it seems) are LS vs Free-Grace.

    Nothing new...just that same old thing over and over on each thread.

    Man...what happened to the good old C/A debates? :)
     
    #1 Jarthur001, Aug 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2008
  2. canadyjd

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    It is very sad, indeed, when those who have confessed the name of Christ cannot honestly engage one another in civil discussion about what scripture actually teaches.

    Instead, the initial posts are about this "heretic" and that "heretic". Scripture is barely mentioned at all, and when it is, it is rarely engaged in a serious way.

    Why can't we stick to discussing scripture or just shut up?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. ReformedBaptist

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    Here ya guys go...

    Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
    2 Timothy 1:8-9

    1. God saved us by the Gospel
    2. God called us by the Gospel
    3. God did not save us according to our works
    4. God did save us according to HIS own purpose and grace
    5. God's saving grace was given to HIS ELECT before the world began.
     
  4. StefanM

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    The C/A debates were much better. At least we didn't have someone starting a ton of threads trying to build publicity for his book.
     
  5. ReformedBaptist

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    Jesus prays only for the elect

    John 17:9-10
    I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

    and,

    v.20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

    1. Christ's intercession cannot be separated from His redemption.
    2. Christ interceded only for believers, the elect.
    3. Only the elect are included in the redemption and intercession of Christ.
     
  6. canadyjd

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    Preach on, brother, preach on!!!:jesus:

    peace to you:praying:
     
  7. donnA

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    I am beginning to think LS (for or against) is all some people know how to post about, it's all you see them post on.
     
  8. ReformedBaptist

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    Arminianism - Your days are numbered...

    Isaiah 53 with Commentary

    1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

    Romans 10:15-17. The report is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The arm of the LORD is revealed to those who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Conversely, those who disbelieve are under the condemnation of Isaiah. John 12:37-40


    2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

    Jesus Christ, being in the very form of God, took upon Himself the form of a sevent, and was made in the likeness of men. Phil 2:6-7

    3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

    John 11:35. Jesus wept. Luke 9:22. He was rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes. Matt 26:31. All the disciples forsook Jesus at His trial that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

    4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    1 Peter 2:23-24. He was reviled, he suffered, he bore our sins in His own body, that we being dead to sins should live to righteousness. By His stripes we are healed.

    6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    John 10:15-17. Jesus lays His life down for the SHEEP. And He has other sheep, Gentiles who are also given by the Father to Him, them He must bring also. And there shall be ONE FOLD (not TWO) and one Shepherd. Titus 2:14. He gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for Himself a peculiar people, zealous for good works.

    7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

    Acts 8:34-35. The eunuch asks, "Does the prophet speak this of himself or another?" Then Phillip opened his mouth...and preached Jesus to him. Halleluah!!! Matt 27:12. Jesus answered nothing to his accusers.

    8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    By this the eunuch understood he needed someone to help him understanding. Acts 8:34-35. And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14. And here in this text we see that it is for the transgression of "my people" was He stricken, of both Jews and Gentiles.

    9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    John 19:18; 41. He was crucified with the wicked, and bured with the rich. 1 Peter 2:23. When He was reviled, reviled not again.

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    Leviticus 17:11. The life of the flesh is in the blood. John 1:29. Behold, the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world.

    11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    Acts 17:31. God the Father has given us assurance by raising Jesus from the dead. Romans 3:20;24. By the works of the law no flesh shall be justified, for by the Law is the knowledge of sin. But, we are justified freely by his grace. 1 Peter 1:2 We are elect according to the foreknowledge of God.

    12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    John 17:9-10; 20. Eternal redemption and intercession biblically joined and insperable.

    Praise God for His excellent mercy and redemption in Christ! Praise God for His unfrustratable redemption!!! Hallalujah!!!


    RB
     
    #8 ReformedBaptist, Aug 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2008
  9. mparkerfd20

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    Am I wrong in that I've always thought that in verses 9-10 Jesus was specifically praying for the "eleven" disciples and not actually praying for the elect until verse 20? Some seem to take verses 9-10 as a prayer for the elect.
     
  10. ReformedBaptist

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    No, I do not think your wrong in that. He is praying for the eleven. That is why I included verse 20 because he says, not for these alone...which makes all the specifics of the intercession for the 11 to all those who believe in Jesus through their word. It then is not wrong for me to believe and accept that the things Jesus prayed for His Apostles He has also prayed for all His people.

    RB
     
  11. JDale

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    Be careful how loud you say that JA -- or one of the moderators will prematurely lock your thread and accuse you of being "divisive" and "provocative," among other things.

    Really, it doesn't matter whether it's Lordship haters or Calvinist shills, its still generally the same attitude, and the same arguments.

    JDale
     
    #11 JDale, Aug 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2008
  12. mparkerfd20

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    I agree with you. I was just making sure we were on the same page. I have seen the passage referenced before without the inclusion of verse 20.
     
  13. webdog

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    Hasn't it been predestined this is how it was to be? ;)
     
  14. webdog

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    I don't see that here either. If you are speaking of Lou, I would think his posting has promoted John Mac's TGATJ moreso than his.
     
  15. Rippon

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    You have a strange dictionary.Lou has certainly not 'promoted' TGATJ.When one castigates something,it's the very opposite of promotion.
     
  16. webdog

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    Not really. It has gotten at least one person here on the BB to go out and buy it. No such thing as negative publicity.
     
  17. TCGreek

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    I embrace the doctrines of grace because I see them in Scripture, but I may have been kicked out of the calvinist camp on BB. :laugh:
     
  18. Allan

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    I don't think it was the Calvinist camp but the Reformed Camp wasn't it?
    It was said on a thread a little while back that you'd be a good Calvinist though maybe not a Reformed - or something like that.

    In any case you make a great believer in Chrst and it is to him alone we are to show ourselves approved - not to living or dead men :)
     
    #18 Allan, Aug 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2008
  19. TCGreek

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    Thanks, Allan.

    Sometimes I used Calvinist theology and Reformed theology interchangeably, but when we get down to certain subjects, they're right.
     
  20. ReformedBaptist

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    That is the case TC. I too have used the terms interchangably. Some would argue strongly that MAcArthur is not Reformed because of his dispensational theology and premillenialism. (but I am on record as saying I am more reformed than he is!) Some would argue Presbyterians are not really Reformed (Dutch Reformed) and some Presbyterians would argue that Reformed Baptists are not really Reformed. :laugh:

    Personally, I think its a stupid and divisive point and argument to make. If a man wishes to call himself Reformed because he holds calvinists views, leave him alone. He is indeed "reformed" from an Arminian or non-calvinist view, and is in theological unity with the Reformation.

    Others yet, and I am of this mind, that the best definition for Reformed is not our convictions on baptism or church government, or even the relationship of church and state, but with the five solas of the Reformation. If we define "Reformed" in this manner, then we find broad sweeping unity among many denominations.

    RB
     

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