I would like to ask...

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pastor Sam, Jun 16, 2003.

  1. Pastor Sam

    Pastor Sam
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    I use the KJV but I don't agree with all these KJVO people. I am always grouped with the Ruckmanites. Why is that? What is wrong with believing the KJV is the preserved Word of God for the English speaking people. I will tell you... Because someone who thinks they know it all has decided that is the way it will be.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    Nothing. In fact, most of us here (if not all of us) agree with that. However, where we balk is when someone adds the word "only" as in "the only preserved word of God for the English speaking people." That is where the line from biblical to unbiblical is crossed and that is what is wrong with Ruckman's position, as well as others.

    Unfortunately, you are right. There are some who decided that the KJV should be the only preserved word of God for hte English speaking people and they have caused many divisions and much strife in teh body of Christ. There is no biblical evidence that they should say this. It has grown purely out of their own minds. These "know it alls" like Ruckman, Cloud, Waite, and others have muddied the waters and brought great confusion to the people of God. Having ministered from a modern translation for over 7 years, I can say without a doubt that the MVs are not causing the confusion. The only confusion we have had is from an occasional KJVOnly person who is confused about the word of God. Fortunately, they have not been allowed to cause strife in teh church.
     
  3. Forever settled in heaven

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    if the KJB is an example of God's preserved Word for the English-speaking, fine. but if there's some suggestion of exclusivity in the the of "the preserved Word," then u'll have to prove it.

    anyone can claim the same for the Bishop's Bible, the Geneva, the NIV, etc. but the onus is on them.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    To say that God "preserved" His Word in ANY English translation is really really really bad theology.

    There is zero, none, nil, zilch Scripture to back that up. Sorry. I'll take a raincheck on agreeing with that statement.

    That God "preserved" His Word, though, is a WONDERFUL TRUTH which I believe and agree with 100%.

    And allowed us to have many good English translations of it!
     
  5. Pastor Sam

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    Some people are very closed minded. Others don't have one!!!
     
  6. Scott J

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    You ask the rhetorical question. You apologetically present your view. You answer your rhetorical question in a way that precludes anyone who disagrees with you from being open minded...

    ...then you come back and condemn others for having a closed or non-existant mind.

    Clever debate tactics but not a great deal of substance either in position nor accusation. The most clever thing is how you condemn your own first post with your last.
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    I am by no stretch of the imagination a KJVO as I think more highly of the NASB for accuracy but mostly because I always try to look to the originals (as close as I can get). However, the MV's are causing confusion by defenders including ANY translation that claims to be a translation as equally legitimate. As I said, I am not KJVO, and I am equally not an "ANY MV is fine with me" person either. I would like to see a discussion of translations without the KJVO argument involved and without the "all MV's are OK" defense involved. I mean a scholarly discussion about the relative merits of each. How well does this or that translation do its job and tell me what the original language said (without redefining "said")?
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Thanks, Pastor Sam. I have felt most people with your beliefs would not admit it, but glad to see you are open about it! :eek:
     
  9. Johnv

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    I'm inclined to agree. The KJV is a wonderful, faithful, and reasonably accurate translation of God's preserved Word. But that's simply my educated opinion, and is not a biblical fact. Hence, those who disagree with me are by no means biblically wrong.
     
  10. RaptureReady

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    As some of you know, I believe that the King James Bible is God's preserved word for us today. I believe that the modern versions contain the word of God, but when compared to the King James, the King James will always be the final autority. As I have said before, there is no verse for any bible to claim by name that perfection. I believe that it is the only book that contains the power of God's word. If I were to choose a modern version, which one would I choose? Which of the modern versions is best translated? We don't have the originals to compare against. If another bible came out today, tomorrow, the next day and the next day and the next day, etc., do we accept these bibles? Another question is, if the devil knows scripture better than we do, would it not make since to corrupt that scripture so others would doubt God's word? Isn't this how it all started? "Yea, hath God said."
     
  11. Johnv

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    I believe that the modern versions contain the word of God, but when compared to the King James, the King James will always be the final autority.
    I think that's part of the problem. We should not be comaring versions to other versions for accuracy. We should be comparing them to the texts from which they came. There are a few places where using the KJV as the final authority would prove to be translationally incorrect.

    if the devil knows scripture better than we do, would it not make since to corrupt that scripture so others would doubt God's word?
    I'm not concerned with how much Satan knows scripture. I'd venture to say the Christ knew scripture better than Satan, so I'm perfectly content following Christ.
     
  12. neal4christ

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    Thank-you for clearly stating what you believe, Homebound. I must ask, though, why is it okay for you to believe the KJV is the only book with the power of God's Word and others cannot about different versions? Why are they in the wrong? Why is your standard that you have chosen binding on others when you admit that there is no justification other than your belief?

    Don't get me wrong. I don't mind that you have made the choice to use the KJV as your standard. But why is your choice binding on others? Why condemn others who make a different choice than you do when they are equally compelled by the evidence to make their choice?

    Neal
     
  13. Anti-Alexandrian

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    Hey,were all adults here,believe what you will;it's you're neck.
    Look at the underlying texts behind the MVs,they are the Dark Age Manuscripts of the Jesuits that come from North Africa.God will not bless those bibles from those texts;how do I know He wont? Because He has not yet!!!
    I have seen Scripture on this board that says God will bear witness to what is the truth.As a born again child of God,He directs me in ALL truth.That is all the justification I need on the subject of the KJB.
    Gee thanks!!
    What evidence?? Why would you trust a bible or anybody behind said bible that chooses a text,or reading that downgrades the Lord Jesus Christ?? The KJB exalts the Lord Jesus Christ where He should be.
     
  14. neal4christ

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    Would you care to explain what you are trying to get at here?

    I am not going here yet again. You do not use the same standard when looking at the production of the KJV, so I am not going to try. Oh, by the way, the blessing part. If I am not mistaken, the NIV has been greatly blessed by God. I guess you forgot that.

    Well, I will give you a chance to come right out and say it. Am I not a Christian then? God bears witness to me as to what the truth is. That is the justification for me using the NIV, ESV, NKJV, NASB, and KJV. And do you make the claim that everything you say and believe is now the truth? There is no possibility that you could be wrong? Sin does not affect your judgment at all?

    It is more than I will ever get from a KJVO. :rolleyes:

    Many MVs do not downgrade but rather state Christ's divinity much clearer than the KJV. But you will never concede that point because you have an agenda to push, right?

    Neal

    P.S. Where is your longsuffering (Gal. 5:22)? You should be patiently trying to show us our error, not put us down.
     
  15. RaptureReady

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    How can we compare them to the texts from which they came when those things are gone/destroyed.?

    I’m not saying follow satan. I’m saying that I believe that the devil is behind all the modern versions of bibles out there.
     
  16. RaptureReady

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    As MV-neverist said, you can make your own decision just like I have made mine.

    I don’t condemn others, as I said, it is your choice. But, if you quote scripture that does not stand up against the King James Bible, then, I will speak up.

    BTW, what is your final authority?
     
  17. neal4christ

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    So it is my choice but yet you will still hold me to your standard that you have made up. That makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:

    Neal

    P.S. My final authority is God Almighty. How about you?
     
  18. neal4christ

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    Yeah, he must be thrilled by all the people that have come to salvation through the use of the NIV, NKJV, and NASB. His plan must really be working. :rolleyes:

    Neal

    P.S. Or his plan could be to get Christians to fuss and argue over translations and cause divisions in Christ's church because of Bible versions. I'll let you decide which is the work of Satan, people coming to salvation or divisions among Christians over translations. :confused:

    [ June 18, 2003, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
  19. Alcott

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    Pardon me, your holiness, I didn't realize the pope was participating in this debate.
     
  20. Anti-Alexandrian

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    Come now! You mean to tell me that God bears witness to FIVE different authorities that disagree with one another in THOUSANDS of places?? Who are you trying to kid?? Read Proverbs 11:1 and 20:23!


    Here are the choices that most everybody falls up under:

    1)The KJB is correct and the MVs are wrong
    2)The MVs are correct and the KJB is wrong
    3)Neither the KJB OR the MVs are correct and God was lying when He said He would preserve His word!My Bible(AV) says different:Isa 40:8,Luke 21:33,and Psalms 12:6-7! They cannot both be correct!!Read what Matthew 6:21 and Luke 16:13 says about it.. It's time to choose up sides.
     

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