#IDidntJoin:

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. JonC

    JonC
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    stunning????? Those "soldiers" (if they are) joined to be soldiers - not call the shots.
     
  2. poncho

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    That's right the troops should just quietly follow orders.

    What about you though are you in favor of sending the troops in to support Al Qaeda in a Syrian civil war?
     
  3. Squire Robertsson

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    Poncho, simply put when a soldire refuses an order, he\she becomes liable for charges under various and sundry articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice aka the UCMJ. Some that come to my non-lawerly mind are

    1. Article 86 Absence without leave.
    2. Article 87 Missing movement
    3. Article 94 Mutiny\Sedition
    And depending on how the service member voices his resistence to the Syrian War, charges under

    • Article 88 Contempt towards officials
    could be brought.

    And last but not least the catchall article: Article 134
    It's not the service member who gets to decide if a war is lawful or not. That is a court's duty. The service member has to prove that claim in court.
     
  4. poncho

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    I understand all that Squire. So what about you? Are you ready to support sending in the troops to fight for Al Qaeda in a Syrian civil war?

    How many here will call the soldiers or sailors who might refuse to fight for Al Qaeda in a Syrian civil war cowards or traitors to their country? How about you would defend them or the president?

    Last question. Why should a service member have to prove something that should by now be obvious to us all?
     
    #5 poncho, Sep 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2013
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Yes, they should. The military is not a democracy. If you join, you need to expect to fight. That's the primary duty of the military. And these are not "stunning photos" as your link implies. These are nothing more than a representation of the tiny minority of U.S. military personnel who seem to think they have a say in where they go and what they do in their military careers. Tell 'em to put a sock in it, suck it up, and move on.
     
  6. Squire Robertsson

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    As for your questions:

    1. No, and as far as I know nobody's posited American boots on the ground. Personally, I think this is a perfect storm for Al Qaeda. The Russians and Chinese strung the West along. This gave AQ the time to if not take over the Syrian Civil War, then to become a serious fraction of it.
    2. Muntious mayhap, but not cowards or traitors (please check the Constitution's definition of treason.)
    3. Because, they are going to be tried by a court martial. So, they will have to defend their actions. Courts not opinions decide if a persons actions are indefensable.
     
  7. poncho

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    You didn't have to tell me you support sending the military in to defend Al Qaeda. I already knew you would. How things have changed. I remember when Al Qaeda was the enemy.
     
    #8 poncho, Sep 4, 2013
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  8. poncho

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    The globalists have had boots on the ground in Syria, Jordan and Turkey training and equiping Al Qaeda linked "rebels" for over two years now. The CIA trainers wear boots and they have been on the ground for sometime.

    Treasonous traitor is one who claims to be an American that makes war against the United States. Like Obama, Kerry, McCain and their global banking and corporate backers.

    I don't need a court to tell me what is right and what is wrong I have God's word for that. According to God's word murder is wrong so then defending murderers like Al Qaeda is wrong. If a judge says otherwise he is wrong. Unless we're now taking man's word over God's. Is that what we are doing now?
     
    #9 poncho, Sep 4, 2013
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  9. thisnumbersdisconnected

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  10. poncho

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    Al Qaeda is Washington's best ally. When they aren't being used to start civil wars abroad they're being used as boogeymen to frighten us into accepting an authoritarian government.

    Al Qaeda may be the enemy of the people but they are the handiest tool a corporatist authoritarian government could have.

    They are used as justifacations to bomb other countries and set up a militarized big brother police state here at home. They go from ally to enemy depending on what Washington and Wall Street seeks to do. When Washington wants to spy on our phone calls Al Qaeda is the enemy. When Washington wants to affect another regime change they send in Al Qaeda to get the ball rolling. When they start getting their butts kicked Washington runs to the rescue and flies air cover for them.

    When Washington wants to pass more liberty robbing legislation at home Al Qaeda is brought out as the biggest threat to our national security since the USSR. Washington says we have have to take away your liberties or Al Qaeda will kill us all.

    Al Qaeda is like Washington's all purpose tool.
     
    #11 poncho, Sep 5, 2013
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  11. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    From the "Tin Foil Hat Guide to Modern Living" no doubt.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. poncho

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    Can't argue with all the evidence again I see. Al Qaeda is a great asset to interventionists and nation builders like you so I understand why you'd want people to believe Washington's false narratives. To bad for you neocons people aren't buying all the lies and deceptions anymore. Screaming, hollering, calling names, fear-mongering and acting like you know it all can't change that one iota. The people of the world are onto your little act. Even Limbaugh is turning against you.

    You've avoided noticing this so far but it's not about right vs left anymore. Now it's about authoritarians vs libertarians. People still love liberty and you can't stomp or ridicule that out of them no matter how hard you try.
     
    #13 poncho, Sep 5, 2013
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  13. Doubting Thomas

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    Yep, the whole thing is very Orwellian. It's frightening that more people cannot see this.
     
  14. poncho

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    They can see it alright it's all in plain sight now but they just won't risk their comfortable false paradigm by admitting it. Their only defense against the inevitable invasion of reality is to make goofy cliche statements like TND is becoming famous for.

    This is what Washington's "allies" do for fun . . . CLICK HERE

    Obama’s allies in Syria — those who will directly benefit from the coming US airstrikes — stepped up their genocide against Syrian Christians today, attacking Maaloula, a Christian village, indiscriminately using mortar shells fired from a hilltop above the village.

    According to the press report:

    Yep, America's military people should just shut up and follow the C n C's orders to put their lives on the line to protect such worthy "aliies". Ain't that right TND?
     
    #15 poncho, Sep 5, 2013
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  15. poncho

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    What Happened to the “Global War on Terrorism”? The U.S. is “Fighting for Al Qaeda”

    Americans have been repeatedly told that Al Qaeda under the helm of the late Osama bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

    Formulated in the wake of the tragic events of september 11, 2001, the U.S. and its allies launched a “Global War on Terrorism” (GWOT) directed against the numerous “jihadist” Al Qaeda affiliated terror formations in the Middle East, Africa, Central Asia and South East Asia. The first stage of the “Global War on Terrorism” was the bombing and invasion of Afghanistan.

    In the wake of 9/11, the” Global War on Terrorism” served to obfuscate the real economic and strategic objectives behind the US-led wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

    The Patriot legislation was implemented. The national security doctrine stated unequivocally that the American Homeland was to be protected against “Islamic terrorists”.
    For the last 13 years, war on terrorism rhetoric has permeated political discourse at all levels of government. Al Qaeda related threats and occurrences are explained –by politicians, the corporate media, Hollywood and the Washington think tanks– under a single blanket “bad guys” heading, in which Al Qaeda (“the outside enemy of America”) is casually and repeatedly pinpointed as “the cause” of numerous terror events around the World.


    But somehow, in the last few months, this “Al Qaeda paradigm” has shifted. The American public has become increasingly skeptical regarding the validity of the “Global War on Terrorism”


    The US government is actively and openly supporting Syria’s Al Nusrah, the main fighting force affiliated to al Qaeda, largely composed of foreign mercenaries.


    CONTINUE . . .


    Foreign mercenaries they enjoy lobbing mortar rounds into Christian villages and beheading them.


    It's quite the proud moment for you and the neocons eh TND?
     
  16. poncho

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    An examination of selected quotes from "The Grand Chessboard," in the context of current events reveals the darker agenda behind military operations that were planned long before September 11th, 2001.

    "...The last decade of the twentieth century has witnessed a tectonic shift in world affairs. For the first time ever, a non-Eurasian power has emerged not only as a key arbiter of Eurasian power relations but also as the world's paramount power. The defeat and collapse of the Soviet Union was the final step in the rapid ascendance of a Western Hemisphere power, the United States, as the sole and, indeed, the first truly global power... (p. xiii)

    "... But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book. (p. xiv)

    "The attitude of the American public toward the external projection of American power has been much more ambivalent. The public supported America's engagement in World War II largely because of the shock effect of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. (pp 24-5)

    "For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia... Now a non-Eurasian power is preeminent in Eurasia - and America's global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained. (p.30)

    "America's withdrawal from the world or because of the sudden emergence of a successful rival - would produce massive international instability. It would prompt global anarchy." (p. 30) (this is total fear mongering no different than "Al Qaeda will get you if you don't give up your liberties and privacy)

    "In that context, how America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. Eurasia is the globe's largest continent and is geopolitically axial. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for 60 per cent of the world's GNP and about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31)

    It is also a fact that America is too democratic at home to be autocratic abroad. This limits the use of America's power, especially its capacity for military intimidation. Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)

    "Two basic steps are thus required: (Scare the daylights out of Americans with an "outside threat" and lie to them every minute of every day about why they have to give their lives and treasure to fight either against or on behalf of Al Qaeda in foreign civil wars depending on what we're being sold as the policy of the day.

    CONTINUE . . .

    Good ole Al Qaeda and the ever changing narrative from heros to villians and back to heros again. Al Qaeda's status as friend or foe all depends on what "policy" Washington wants to implement at any given time.

    It's as plain as the nose on your face TND. To keep denying the obvious as you have been is akin to insanity at this point.
     
    #17 poncho, Sep 5, 2013
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  17. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    What evidence? From conspiracy theorists? That's nonsense, not evidence.
     
  18. poncho

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    Excuse me while I LOL TND. It's nothing personal. I just find it funny that you are so far behind the times you don't even realize that old trick isn't working anymore. People are waking up to the lies and deceptions. The truth genie is out of the bottle and you and all the king's men (discredited corporate media) can't put it back in there no matter how many times you recycle old worn out cliiches.

    Face it you and your neocon buddies John Kerry and John McCain are 9%ers now. You've been over ruled by the people.
     
    #19 poncho, Sep 6, 2013
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