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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by fromtheright, Jan 4, 2006.
what becomes of the soul?
The destination of a one who has been saved by God is the same regardless of the cause of death.
Very good question!
Since you're killing someone, which is a sin, and since you're killing yourself, so you can't ask forgiveness for that sin, cause you're dead, wouldn't you go to hell?
I don't know the answer, but this would be my guess.
Not if you are a believer as is assumed in the OP. David basically killed Uriah, Moses killed the egyptian, I'm sure I will see both of them in Heaven.
Both David and Moses were murderer. But, afterward, they did repented of their wrongdoing. That is not relate with commit sucide.
What about King Saul? He took a a sword and strike against his own stomach, he killed himself during war. I believe Saul is in hell already. Would God forgive Saul and Christians who commit suicide? I don't think so, because there are no room for them to repent after they commit suicide. They are fool for doing it. Also, Security salvation doctrine is a bad influence on Christians, even a baptist pastor who already did commit suicide in Georgia over 10 years ago.
Later I will post an article mentioned on commit suicide, what the Bible saying about it.
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
One would have to repent of murder in order to enter heaven. Paul wrote the Corinthians that no murderer would inherit heaven.
If one claims to be of God, and truly is, one is not going to commit suicide.
God will not put on us more than we can bear. If during our trials we feel they are so great that we must destroy our life, our faith is not wrapped up, tied up, tangled up in Jesus. Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin.
You may ask, 'What about that one that served God faithfully for many years and ended up with a terminal disease and did not want to suffer? What if that one commits suicide?
Did they truly serve God? We must look at Matthew 7 for some light. Many will stand before God and say 'we did many things in your name'. And He will not even claim to have known them.
Do we truly trust God? Not if we have to cave in to the devil's lies that life is not worth living.
If a man who is born again commits suicide he goes to heaven.
A saved man is capable of commiting any act of immorality that a lost man is but under to circumstances does his sin result in eternal damnation.
Once saved, always saved.
As for Saul, Samuel, who had died already, came back from the dead and told Saul he would be with him the day he died. Unless you think Samuel was in hell, that means Saul went to paradise after commiting suicide.
I don't know Standing Firm.
I was raised with the position you hold. But as I've gotten older that position doesn't mesh with OSAS(which I firmly believe).
Either Christ's blood covers ALL sin or it doesn't. Either this sin is covered by ones earlier faith, or the unconfessed sin of one who died suddenly(not suicide) is not. It can't be both ways. I don't hold to the Pentacostal position that you better be prayed up before you died or you might end up in hell. That smacks of a works theology.
On top of that, there is a scripture somewhere that says the only "unforgivable" sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I'll go see if I can find a reference. Here it is: Matt 12:31-32 I tell you that any sinful thing you do or say can be forgiven. Even if you speak against the Son of Man, you can be forgiven. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven, either in this life or in the life to come. (contemporay English Version)
Can satan cast out satan?
We see people in Matthew telling the Lord they cast out devils in His name, yet He never knew them.
I say, some will go through life, acting pious, going to church, putting money in offering plate, etc., who will never enter heaven.
I do not believe the true child of God will commit suicide. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. Again, 1 Corinthians 10:13 tells us God will not put on us more than we can bear. How can one justify killing oneself in light of that verse?
Not every suicidal person is thinking only of themselves. Some truely think that others would benefit if only from having an end to the emotional turmoil caused by the suicidal person. Some are so clouded by mental illness that they can't make a rational choice. And some are in so much physical pain that death when it comes is welcome(whether they choose suicide or not).
This really has nothing to do with "Satan casting out Satan", but whether God meant it when he said he'd forgive all our sins, and whether Christ meant what he said in the verses I quoted. Satan won't have to cast himself out, cause the jobs already been done!
Another thing that bothers me about your position is accidental suicides. Suppose a Christian were to have to much to drink one night and ran into a tree on the way home and died. He certainly sinned in that he became drunk(though he might not have been a drunkard) and he is certainly soley responsible for his own death. Does he too end up in hell?
Or how about the one who drives on tires that are to thin and ends up the way our drunken friend did? It was certainly his own fault that he chose to drive on tires that weren't safe, where does he end up?(btw, no sin is implied here, just poor judgement)
Question: if one jumps on a grenade in order to save others from death, is it not still suicide?
Would this not also be the greatest form of love?
My stance is that the true child of God will not be deceived by alcohol, as I have posted before.
Hypotheses are being thrown out that only God's Word can give us an answer for.
Suicide is definitely murder, accidental suicide would be like accidentally drinking a bottle that had poison in it. Alcohol, by the way is a poison. Solomon said it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. A true christian will not deliberately drink poison.
Question: if you are walking down the street, and you see a woman, and you lust after her momentarily, but suddenly a bus hits you and kills you, do you go to heaven or to hell?
And I don't believe that the true child of God would tell a lie or spread gossip or look at someone else who is not their own spouse and think impure thoughts or say a swear word when they are angry, but brother it happens every single day.
And to say that a Christian who commits suicide cannot got to heaven because they cannot repent of their sins doesn't make sense.
There are Christians who die every single day who have unconfessed sin in their lives. Can we, as Christians, truly be conscious of every single sin that we have ever committed? I think not.
We are not omniscient, like God. There are sins in our lives as Christians that go overlooked even by our own selves.
Do you think Christians REALLY repent and ask God for forgiveness when they go 1 mile over the speed limit? Or tell a little "white lie" to keep the peace or keep from hurting someone's feeling? Do you think that Christians are REALLY aware of everytime that they let God down?
And what about Christians who go to bed angry with other people and stew about until they go to sleep. What if they die in their sleep? Do they go to hell because they never got the opportunity to repent? No!
I have heard all of my life that Christians who commit suicide are going to burn in hell. That a Christian "can't" commit suicide.
Yes, they can. Unfortunately.
Some do because they have brain tumors that hinder any rational thinking. Others because they are in so much physical pain and torment from cancer or being burned all over their bodies in accidents that any wise decision-making skills have disappeared.
Some Christians who commit suicide are suffering from clinical depression that has been left untreated.
Who knows all of the reasons why people kill themselves?
There is only one individual sin that can send a person to hell. Rejecting God and His gift of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus the Christ.
And the only reason that THAT particular and individual sin sends people to hell is because it is the hallmark of a person who has not allowed God, by grace, to wash away his or her sin NATURE that he or she was born with.
The sin nature, that everyone of us inherited from our parents. The sin nature, unchanged, uncleansed, and unrepented of is what sends people to hell.
Nobody can keep an accurate record of all of their sins.
And if Christians go to hell when they die because even the most insignificant of sins unconfessed, then, brother...
....we are ALL going to hell.
Christians who tragically take their own lives do not go to hell. Period.
[ January 04, 2006, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Scarlett O. ]
Then if that is the case, God makes Himself a liar. For we read in His Word...
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
To kill someone, is to murder them. To kill self is still murder. One cannot repent after death, and one cannot beg forgiveness before the act. The psalmist wrote, 'If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me'
your words are right on target.
You are so right!
Also everyone, when Christ died on the cross over some two thousand years ago,
How many of your sins were in the future?
Lies, stealing, adultery, fornication, murder, all of your sins were in the future.
The Lord gives us eternal life, not "life until we sin again", ETERNAL LIFE.
We don't have a license to sin just because Christ died for our sins.
If it is ok for a christian to commit suicide, then it is also ok for that christian to lie? to steal? to commit adultery? to commit fornication? to murder someone else.
I cannot buy into this theology. Salvation is not a license to sin. The Bible is clearly against all these sins. We are not saved to return to these sins. Behold if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new.
What? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we that are dead to sin continue any longer therein? Romans 6:1,2
Murderers shall not inherit the Kingdom. Inheritance is a family matter. Only a saved person can inherit or be cut out of an inheritance. But, even if you are cut out of a will, you are still a part of the family.
Also, do a sentence diagram of the Greek in Rev 21:8. You might just see what it is talking about.
And no one is saying it is not a sin.
But that Christ died for our sin.
Do you believe that if you have unconfessed sin in your life when you died you will go to Hell?
If so, you are depending on your works to keep yourself clean, and not Christ's Blood.
Either it is Christ or you.
If you are depending on yourself to keep yourself clean by constantly repenting over everything you do, you are not depending on Christ for Salvation.
For once, I agree with Mark.
That is dangerous. (not agreeing with mark )
but depending on oneself.
Yes, someone can commit suicide and go to Heaven.
But I wouldn't want to stand before God in that condition and have all my rewards stripped away.
Wonder what God would say to the one who tells people it is ok to commit suicide... isn't that giving them a license to sin?