If all will be raptured then what about this....?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Both verses express a condition. If every christian gets raptured then why should Jesus even warn his disciple? This makes no sense at all.

    What does it take to be accounted worthy?

    I saw Benny Hinn talking about this today and even though I don't watch BH usually his message seemed pretty sound today. He quoted these verses here and said that the only way to be raptured is to abide in Jesus and that in the end before the rapture there will be a great falling away, which he said has already begun because the real gospel isn't preached anymore, and there will also be a great renewal or great revival. But this doesn't even have anything to do with Hinn. These verses are in the bible and if all christians will be raptured why should Jesus warn his disciples?
     
  2. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wouldn't rely on Benny Hinn for anything.
     
  3. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mr. Hinn? There's a pot on line 1 for you.
     
  4. J. Jump

    J. Jump
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree with webdog and stay away from Benny. However, I will say this, that while all Christians will be ratpured, not all Christians are going to be found worthy to enter the 1,000-year kingdom of Christ and rule and reign with Him.

    Many teach that all Christians will rule and reign, some teach that not all will rule and reign but will be ruled over however still have their piece of the paradise pie, and then the Bible teaches that there are those (saved individuals) that are going to be found unworthy and will receive just due for what they have done while on this earth, while doesn't amount to anything but wood, hay and stubble, unfortunately.
     
  5. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    In my humble interpretation, all Christians will not be raptured. Some will be counted worthy (like the Philadelphians) and some will be chastened (like the Laodiceans).
     
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    FTR, I would agree mostly about certain so-called, self-styled 'teachers'.

    Uh - J. Jump - That passage that talks about "wood, hay, and stubble" also talks about "gold, silver, precious stones", if I remember correctly. Does it say anything about "gold, silver, precious stones" reigning and ruling, there? I think I saw something about 'receiving a reward', but did not think it was there defined as to what it would be.

    Ed

    P.S. Language Cop wants to know the exact definition of "ratpured"! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
    #6 EdSutton, Oct 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2006
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seems the following ADDITIONS have been made to God's
    Holy Written Word in order for the OP (opening post)
    to make sense:

    Rev 3:10 Because SOME OF THEE hast kept the word of my patience,
    I also will keep SOME OF thee from the hour of temptation,
    which shall come upon all the world,
    to try them that dwell upon the earth.


    Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
    IN ORDER that ye may be accounted worthy
    to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
    and to stand before the Son of man.
     
  8. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you suggesting that Rev 3:10 is addressed to the whole church?
     
  9. J. Jump

    J. Jump
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    No the reward is not defined there if I remember correctly, but when comparing Scripture with Scripture it is very easy to see that the reward is being able to rule and reign with Christ. Crowns will be given at that time, which speaks of rulership.
     
  10. genesis 12-15

    genesis 12-15
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Revelation 3:10 is a Tribulation reference. The church will be kept out of the hour of temptation. It will have been raptured. Those who are tried will still be here during the Tribulation.

    Luke 21:36 simply indicates that to be accounted worthy one must be saved. Those who are saved are OSAS and will stand before the Son of Man without fear.

    There is not a single verse in the bible that tells a Christian he or she is in danger of becoming a non-Christian, or will miss the rapture. Don't send me a bunch of verses to the contrary. If you find even one, you are twisting its interpretation. You will simply create doubt in the minds of seekers, of babes in Christ, and those who are wavering in their faith. That, my friend, is sin.
     
  11. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's an interesting approach. Don't disagree with me or you will be sinning? I'm gonna risk it...

    What is the meaning, in your discernment of Christ writing to 7 churches?

    If Rev 3:10 applies to the whole church how do these verses also taken from Rev 3 apply?

    15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

    16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. ​

    Is the whole church both kept from the hour of temptation and spewed out of the Lord's mouth?
     
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Brother Genesis 12-15 -- Preach it! :thumbs:



    Originally Posted by Ed Edwards
    //Seems the following ADDITIONS have been made to God's
    Holy Written Word in order for the OP (opening post)
    to make sense:

    //Rev 3:10 Because SOME OF THEE hast kept the word of my patience,
    I also will keep SOME OF thee from the hour of temptation,
    which shall come upon all the world,
    to try them that dwell upon the earth.//


    Rufus_1611 : //Are you suggesting that Rev 3:10 is addressed to the whole church?//

    I was only suggesting that SOME PEOPLE add to the scripture.

    However, I now suggest:
    Revelation 3:10 is written to be of interest to
    "all the world" especially those who might want
    to avoid the hour* of Temptation.

    * here is the Bible/prophetic definition of some terms:

    HOUR - the appropriate time
    DAY - the appropriate time
    WEEK 1 - the apropriate time
    WEEK 2 - an appropriate time of SEVEN years duration
    YEAR - the appropriate time
    MILLINNIUM - the appropriate time
     
  13. Linda64

    Linda64
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    J. Jump--there you go again, dividing up the Body of Christ. 1 Cor. 3 does not teach about ruling and reigning with Christ--it teaches about how a Christian builds on the foundation (Christ) and receiving rewards and loss of reward. You imply that the reward is ruling and reigning--when that is not what Paul is speaking of. You are adding to the Scripture by doing that. There is no mention of what the reward is.

    If all Christians are raptured--then they are all changed (receive glorified bodies--which makes us "perfect"), how can some (in those glorified bodies) be found "unworthy"? How do you interpret Romans 8:29-30?

    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)

    Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Romans 8:30)

    Justification never changes--Christians are justified by faith--the righteousness of Christ is imputed (charged to our account) to us. (2 Cor. 5:21)

    My question is: how is it possible for a "predestined, called, justified, and glorified" believer be found "unworthy" at the JSOC?
     
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Linda: //My question is: how is it possible for a "predestined, called, justified,
    and glorified" believer be found "unworthy" at the JSOC?//

    'Unworthy' of what?
    Certainly not unworthy of the eternal life with the
    Son of Glory. Centainly not unworthy of the
    eternal life called 'salvation'.

    But surely such a one might be unworthy of serving
    on an eartly plane with Jesus. Certainly worthly
    of only prizes for their wood, hay, and stubble.

    1 Corinthians 3:1115 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For other foundation can no man lay,
    then that is laide, which is Iesus Christ.

    12 Now if any man build vpon this foundation,
    gold, siluer, preciousstones, wood, hay, stubble:
    13 Euery mans worke shall be made manifest.
    For the day shall declare it, because it shall
    bee reuealed by fire, and the fire shall trie
    euery mans worke of what sort it is.

    14 If any mans worke abide which he
    hath built thereupon, he shal receiue a reward.
    15 If any mans worke shall bee burnt,
    he shall suffer losse: but he himselfe
    shall be saued: yet so, as by fire.
     
  15. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    This doesn't convince me.

    Luke 21:36 means the same no matter if you include "in order" or not.

    As an example. This sentence means the same with or without "in order".

    Eat your meal that you become big and strong.

    Eat your meal in order that you become big and strong.

    Same meaning.

    Rev 3:10 contains a condition.I don't understand why you don't see this.

    Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    Why does he keep us from the hour of temptation?

    Answer:

    Because we kept the word of his patience.


    But what happens if you didn't keep the word of his patience?
    What happens then? Does every christian automatically do it? I don't know.
    If every christian automatically did it why did he even talk about it?
     
  16. dispen4ever

    dispen4ever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    0
    ..........because you have kept the word........ etc. simply refers to having been saved. He could have written, "Because you have believed........ etc."

    One verse of scripture cannot contradict another.
     
  17. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    where do you want to know this? you could also interpret it differently. i wouldn't have assumed that it simply means "because you have believed". from reading it i have a different impression.

    and what about luke 21:36?
    it sounds as if watching and praying is a condition. if you don't watch and pray then you will not be accounted worthy. this is what it seems to say in my opinion.

    Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
    that ye may be accounted worthy
    to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
    and to stand before the Son of man.
     
  18. dispen4ever

    dispen4ever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    0
    You cannot argue one scripture against another. The bible is clear: salvation is by grace through faith, the gift of God, not of works. Watching and waiting has zero to do with salvation.
     
  19. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread is not about salvation but about being raptured.
     

Share This Page

Loading...