If Calvinism is true, then why did Christ hide his message in parables?

In short, why would you hide a message from people so they can't believe it when those people were born unable to willingly believe or even understand that message in the first place?

jesus didnt hide anything. this is your assumption.

the circumstances of the anyone hearing depends on their ears and eyes working properly to see and hear.
the bible states that they cannot hear nor see because their spirit eyes and spirit ears have ceased to work.

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


their equipment didnt work properly.
thus they didnt hear the message.

and the only one to fix their equipment is God and they wont ask God to fix their equipment.

think Skandelon. Nobody heard nor understood Jesus message. they couldnt because all carnal mans equipment failed to work from the original model, adam.

only when God completely replaces mans equipment will their newly aquired equipment (spirit eyes and ears) work properly.

Nothing is hidden here to those that have properly working equipment.

In the case of Jesus speaking. No One had properly working equipment except Jesus.

(everything is thought to be hidden to those with improperly working equipment but it is not the case. their equipment is broken and not functioning properly)

its called total depravity. we are born with improperly working equipment.

to hear God. anyone must have Gods spirit within them to hear.

If one doesnt Know that the spirit of God is "within" them. Dont expect them to understand Jesus Parables. then and today. thats the bottom line.

nothings hidden. its the difference of hearing the message with carnal ears or spiritual ears.

 

Skandelon,

my understanding of total depravity and hardening is perfectly understandable and differentiated from one another.

man was born of adam with a cursed spirit. there is in no certain terms a chance God accepts them into eternal life. they are flawed. they are damaged they must either receive a new spirit or never be able to enter eternal life. it is something they are born with. It is at enmity to God. they are at enmity to the spirit of Jesus Christ. they are in opposites of Gods righteousness.

God has communicated to these people through visions and dreams of their prophets chosen of God.

Have these prophets received eternal life. NO!

because the spirit of Christ is not yet prepared for them to receive. the testator hasnt proven himself worthy. he hasnt proven himself righteous.
He hasnt died and been resurrected. his spirit will be given at pentacost to mankind in their future.

As planned. Jesus arrives between the OT and NT. the OT is over. the law has now been brought to man not externally but internally. by God giving of his sons spirit to mankind. all OT saints ARE not in heaven. they havent received eternal life for they must first enter into spiritual death and be judged. then receive their verdict.

this is the romans 9-11 expression towards the OT jews. they havent received the spirit. they are called vessels of wrath. (but yet they are still the people of God who served Gods purposes and Goals. even though they are vessels of Wrath. they will later be judged and receive their verdict of innocence and be brought into the fold of "In Christ".)

but seriously. these people listening to Jesus didnt have the proper spirit to understand what Jesus was describing. He was telling them about heaven. Gods spiritual realm.
If he used every word on planet earth. every discriptive word describing earth. He still wouldnt speak one word as describing Heaven...for heaven is totally opposite of this cursed world. totally opposite. totally righteous. totally invisible. totally absolute.

All he could say was heaven is "like".....and use terms from this world so that we could partially grasp his ideas..

how does one describe something invisible and intangible?

But yet Jesus words are annointed. when he speaks spiritual words. (unaudible)

they are infinite and absolute. they are words that create and bring about Glory to God.

they are spiritual words concerning Gods full knowledge of Good and evil. It is truth that is..

Unless God gives you or me the spirit of his son.

We can not nor will not hear Gods truth as he speaks it for our spirit is damaged and can not understand God.

Now as far as hardening. God chooses whom will receive his seed. He Chooses. When we receive his seed. We are drawn to following the law for it is an integral part of their seed. we seek to be righteous. Yet we cant for we still BELIEVE we contain the wrong spirit.
We must be taught of God on How to be prepared t receive this new Spirit within us.

Now hold the phone.. this is the OT jews circumstance. They had the law (although external)
the next step is to prepare themselves to receive this spirit of Christ.

the parallel of the jews is TO TEACH US TODAY who and what is the vessels of wrath and mercy. Yes Skandelon. 4000 years of history passed just to teach the church what is the law and what is faith.

what is, or who is the vessels of wrath (those living under law without the spirit) and those who live by mercy (those who live by the Faith of the spirit within them)

those who are hardened are those CHOSEN to BE VESSELS OF WRATH TODAY. their recognition, understanding and reproduction of Gods truth are limited because they refuse or are limited from hearing and seeing Gods FULL REVELATION of truth.

yet while the limited understanding that they hold of God, Some truth and some imagination keep them living under standards designed of God to be formidable enemies of those living by faith and called vessels of mercy.

until the end of the plans provided for their tasks that lay before them. the vessels of wrath will be kept in their stations of belief until they have accomplished their assigned tasks.

Yes Skandelon, hardening is for a purpose. it provides the vessels of mercy an opponent to volly truth off of. for the only thing returned from the vessels of wrath is imaginations and untruths.

we have total depravity from birth until God chooses who will receive his seed. and afterwards God harden some within his limited choice to become vessels of wrath or opponents overagainst vessels of mercy.

its truth against error, its Knowledge of Good against evil. portrayed through the lives of living witnesses.

so go figure out the parables and then ask your friends who understands what.
and you will see for yourself who is a vessel of wrath and who is a vessel of mercy.
Who can understand parables and spiritual truths and who cant understand parables and cant understand spiritual truths.

its not that the truth is hidden., it cant be understood by those whom God hasnt unveiled their eyes.

Proving God has TOTAL sovereignty.
there is no free will of those being obedient or disobedient in Gods plans

 

we can easily parallel these hardened with those called reprobates. (both jew and gentiles)

easy answer: Yes. this is found in romans 11. those (living under the law) OT jews as well as reprobate gentiles are redeemed into the fold "in christ" after the "age of the gentiles" are completed.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

israel receives their sight once again. (israel being those representing those living under the law. you can also parallel those reprobate gentiles as jews also as they lived under the law without the faith of the spirit of Christ.)

if you were to inspect this general plan of God. whereas all israel chosen and all gentiles chosen of God to receive his law and seed.

both vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy are saved.

yet God doesnt outright mention any others outside these two chosen groups of people.(???)

this is where arminians and calvinists both drop the ball. there doctrines both contain a final destination whereas the vessels of wrath are destined for hell.

didnt either Arminians or calvinists not read Romans 11:32 (???)

does romans 11:32 point towards a future prophetic occurance of forgiveness? (I say, yes!)

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

What part of "all" in rom 11:32 doesnt the arminians or calvinists not accept?
or the mystery mentioned in rom 11:25.

Is God secretly slipping in here a prophetic assurance that all he calls both vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy. that "all" would eventually (futuristically) be saved?

 

Me2,

We all born with sin come from Adam - Romans 5:12, we all are crooked.

God created hell for Satan and the fallen angels, not for us. But, people go to hell, because they follow Satan, and remain in sins without have repentance.

We all have to repentance of our sins and to believe upon Christ, so we can go to heaven. Not because of God choose us go to heaven. God already know who will go to heaven or go to hell BEFORE the creation. God is an omniscience, means God knows everything. People are chosen or elect, whosever called upon Christ, that God already know them before the creation.

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom(which person) ye will serve; whether(either) the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: BUT AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD." - Joshua 24:15.

It proves us, that, Joshua told them, they have the choice which one they would serve, Joshua told them, he already determined to serve the Lord. That is Joshua's freewill to serve the Lord!


Also, in Luke 15:12-32 about the prodigal son. Christ tells them that, a son have his own will, son wants to leave his father's house on his own way. Does father force his son to stay in his house??? No. Father allows son to leave in son's will. Son goes into the wrong way of his own way. Later, he become very misery, he realizes, that he goes into the wrong way lead unto destruction, so, he decides to repent of his wrong doing - Luke 15:18-19. So, he gets up and return to his father, ask for forgive, that his freewill to repentance. Does father force his son to repent? No. Father allows son to make decison to choice want to stay in sins, or repentance toward father. Same as what God, the Father does. God does not make us robot. God gaves us freewill to make our choice to stay in sins or repentance. Does God force us to repent back to him? No. God allows us to make decision want to stay in sin or repent toward God. Actually, God's desire that EVERY person come to repentance - 2 Peter 3:9.

God allows person leaving and forsake Him as He looses his hand let person go.(John 10:28-29) Because a person stopped to follow Christ. - (John 10:27)

Bible is very clearly teaching us, that every person do have choices. No verse anywhere in the Bible saying that God creates us as robot without making any decisions and choices.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Skandelon, so you would consider yourself a Pelagian?

 

Deafposttrib,

Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


the vessels of mercy are called as are also the vessels of wrath by God. both working together to display the Glory of God throughout Human History.

Both are following Gods prepared and predestined will for mankind.

this is his chosen methodology until HIS creation has been reconciled.
Not man presumed free will that it be this way..

***

What do you Think Jacob meant, When He said,
"WE WILL SERVE THE LORD" ?.

Well Jesus "Our Lord" said that serving Him is Offering mercy and forgiveness to our fellow human beings, even if that means dying for them.

He really meant it.... He really did...

Now Deafpostrib, do you actually think that God will want his creation to be tormented with pain forever?.
doesnt that sounds a lot like what Satan would want to do with Gods creation?
Are'nt you getting their two goals mixed up?
(mar 3:28)

If you were a vessel of wrath. would you want your neighbor to end up being tormented in pain forever?
If You were a vessel of Mercy. Would you want your
neighbor to end up being tormented in pain forever?

are you presuming that God is being an example of a vessel of wrath, or a vessel of mercy by tormenting Billions of his creation forever?.

 

Excuse me?

Where are we commanded to die for others?

Why haven't you?

 

Yelsew2,

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

isnt the cross a means of death.

isnt denying self..
abdicating authority of self, or "dying" to self?

Jesus entire life is symbolized as putting everyone elses needs above his own.
He becomes our spiritual conduit of supply from God to mankind..above His own choices.

His choice or will is to serve his father by serving others. a continual process of dying to self..

isnt this what Christians (vessels of mercy) are called to do until God and his creation becomes "all in all".
until everyones needs are met?.
until everyone experiences becoming a giver as well as a receiver with all supply coming from God?.
until all learn and experiences loving their fellow man?

didnt you say on another post that we must "receive to give".
we are essentially becoming a conduit of Gods supply to others. primarily considering our own needs adequate or being content that they are adequately supplied and refocusing our attention on the needs of others.

essentially dying to our own self interests. is the goal of finding our life. the life of serving others

notice, I have never cosigned you to eternal torment in hell...
I have considered your needs not met yet.
I offer Mercy. Not Judgement.
I offer Truth, Not error

If Im am to be the conduit for the supply given me on your behalf.
You will Receive it, Pronto!.
Whatever That Might be.

Consider this yelsew. In the coming ages. the firstfruits are to be overseers of others needs. Just as our example jesus while he was on Earth.
We are learning how to be like this today. we are becoming aware of our role in Gods activities of reconciliating His Creation to himself.
By first receiving to ourselves and learning what needs are firsthand.

problem is as in romans 9-11.
Our receivers that we are to supply their needs from our father will be our enemies. we must first learn to forgive them before we can fulfill their undeserved needs.
thats called dying to self. dying to our desire to judge them before we offer mercy...
or whatever they require to receive and understand eternal life.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

We are all becoming Like Jesus Christ. the greatest servant in Gods Kingdom to Come who is EVEN willing to die to his own self needs for the receiving of others needs.

heres a neat question?


What are you willing to give up to become "one with God"?

answer..everything. or the forementioned parable statement.

whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.