If God only sees Jesus...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by James_Newman, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    Some folks deny that there is such a thing as practical righteousness in the believer, and that the only righteousness a believer has is Christ's imputed righteousness. Christ lived a perfectly sinless life and died on the cross for our sins, and I believe that that righteousness was indeed imputed to us when we believed on Him. That said, if whether or not we have Christ's righteousness imputed to us is the only thing that matters at the judgment seat of Christ, why do believers not all get the same reward? Is there truly no sense in which a believer is considered righteous beside the imputed righteousness of Christ?
     
  2. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    And just to add to that James if God only sees Jesus there would be no need to confess future sin because all God would see is Jesus' imputed righteousness.
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    Well James, this is a good question, because we need to get this right.

    First, I believe the scripture supports the doctrine of imputed righteousness.

    I believe it does not mean that we actually take on righteousness, or become righteous.

    However, I do believe that outside of that context, the scriptures do make reference to people who are righteous. They live godly lives. Job, for instance.

    The problem for us is that however godly our lives are, or how righteous we are, it is not enough. We are not sinless. That is why Christ's imputed righteousness is necessary for us because it is pure and sinless.
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    Oops, just realized that I intruded into the middle of an ongoing debate covering more than one thread. Have at it, folks.
     
  5. TCGreek

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    Is there a passage that says a believer is considered righteous apart from the imputed righteousness of Christ?
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    I think what we have going on in this silly debate about "gospels" is simply phraseologies about Bible truths that are implied. (Gosh, don't know if I even did a correct sentence construct. Sorry if I didn't, folks), and then come to conclusions that to others seem heretical.

    First off, let us not forget that God justified us in Christ, and only in Christ, and our righteousness is Christ's and only Christ's.

    Having said that, we also need to realize that there are such things as practical righteousness as differentiated from imputed righteousness, like of what good is it for me to claim I am imputed righteous in Christ, and then live like the son of the devil, especially if I have been totally exposed to gospel teaching.

    Heck, I'd put on my Sunday clothes and go to church and greet people with an holy kiss, and hug them, and shout Amen, and sing at the top of my voice, and walk all the walk and talk all the talk, and then come home beat my wife and kids as soon as they take off their Sunday clothes and drink all the liquor I can get my hands on, and cuss and swear from Sunday afternoon to next Sunday morning, if the imputed righteousness of Christ is all I ever quote.

    I got no quarrel with those who hold to both imputed and practical doctrines.

    My problem is when somebody says somebody who is IN CHRIST will temporarily be locked up in hell for a thousand years because he hadn't lived good enough to measure up to the righteousness imputed to him, because that goes against the grain of what Jesus said about him being the vine and we being the branches which basically means if the branches can ever be separated from the vine, the vine will have to be torn to pieces.

    But, then, that's just me.

    What do I know, eh ?

    Just a ramblin' Primitive Baptist who probably will get a good whack on the butt (no irreverence intended) from the Lord when the time comes up there in glory. (figure of speech, brethren).
     
    #6 pinoybaptist, Aug 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2007
  7. npetreley

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    Amen to both paragraphs.

    .........
     
  8. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    Pinoybaptist thank you for your agreeable disagreement! Just another example of someone that can disagree, but still respect a fellow believer.

    However I will have to disagree with your assessment in this paragraph. We are told that Israel was cutoff from the Vine, but the Vine was anything but torn to pieces.

    When you prune a vine of useless branches it doens't weaken the vine. So I'm not sure where you are coming up with your analogy that the vine would some how be torn up by this pruning?
     
  9. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Don't feed the monster!
     
  10. npetreley

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    Monster = Troll. ;) Well said.
     
  11. J. Jump

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    I just want to find out from the onlookers does anyone think that this langauge is showing love to a fellow believer? Is there anyone that will come forward and say that they approve of this type of behavior? I'm just curious.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    I'm as equally curious. Who is being referred to as a troll or monster ?

    I am sure none of us would qualify for the description of troll, seeing as how we've all been around the board for a while.

    So, it could only stem from dislike, or hatred at worst.

    I don't think that is good.

    We may not agree with each other's theology but we can still treat each other with respect, and go and take a deep breath and come back and disagree.

    There is a poster here whom I have begun to dislike intensely, to be honest, a dislike which was turning to hatred until I thought it over:

    1. I do not even know what he looks like, and vice-versa;
    2. He may be trying to get convinced about what he believes by engaging in discussion;
    3. His way of posting which was, to me, offensive, may just be his way of talking, expressed in writing, and really had no malice aforethought;
    4. His theology, as well as mine, eventually, will stay behind and won't come with him to heaven, assuming He is one of God's redeemed;
    4. Our entry to heaven is not determined by whether we were electionists or freewillers, Millenial Exclusionists or not, and all those things that divide us in this fallen world.


    Now, I tell him, he can believe whatever and however he wants to believe, and the same goes for me, and I hope to still meet him in heaven.

    So, relax, brothers.
    Until we know one is indeed a troll, a driveby shooter, let's not call each other any names.
     
  13. npetreley

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    I disagree. There are several trolls on this board, and it doesn't matter that they've been here for a while. Maybe we don't agree on the definition of a troll.

    The wikipedia definition isn't exactly how I would put it, but it give you the basic idea:

     
  14. Rufus_1611

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    Don't sweat it too much Jump. I suspect that those who have viewed these conversations and have a bit of discernment see the spirit that is infecting folks like nPetreley. He, and those with similar infections are unable to make arguments without calling people names and behaving as children. As we covered in another thread we are to concern ourselves with every idle word...

    "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." - Matthew 12:36

    One who fears the day of judgment will likely do more to watch their every idle word. One that thinks he won't be judged or if he is he'll just get a pat on his back for his sins, will likely not worry himself with trivial matters such as calling a brother in Christ names like "monster" or "troll" or "J Jonah Jump" or "Jennifer Jump Leigh" or all the other many names that nPetreley has cast upon you. Who knows if npetreley feared God he might even pause before telling his brethren to go castrate themselves.

    Anyway, you're doing a great job defending the faith and I pray that you keep up the good fight. Perhaps one day npetreley will be old enough to appreciate the book of James and then we can all be friends.

     
  15. npetreley

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    You forgot to mention the time I called you Rufus T. Firefly.
     
  16. Rufus_1611

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    I actually appreciated that one, as prior to it, I didn't know who Rufus T Firefly was and I like it when people teach me things. :)
     
  17. Cutter

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    Thank God He sees the righteousness of His Son in me and not my warts, faults, and
    filthy rags of self esteem.

    2 Corinthians 10:17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. :18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.
     
    #17 Cutter, Aug 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2007
  18. npetreley

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    Three men and one woman trapped in a building! Please send help! If you can't send help, send two more women!
     
  19. James_Newman

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    1 Peter 3:10-12
    10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
    11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
    12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
     
  20. TCGreek

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    And this passage proves what...?
     

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