If I Could Lose My Salvation, I Would...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TCGreek, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. TCGreek

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    1. I really think this statement is true: If I could lose my salvation, I would lose it.

    2. I see no reason, whether philosophical or otherwise, why this statement isn't true. It is true as 2+2=4.
     
  2. Tom Butler

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    It does make sense.

    I would ask these questions of those who say one can lose his salvation: Will one sin do the trick? If not, how many sins does it take? How will we know when we've crossed the line? And if you can lose it, can you get it back? And how?
     
  3. Pilgrimer

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    Hello TCGreek,

    That statement may be true for you, only you know your own heart. But it's not true for me. I know without a shadow of a doubt just how easily I could lose my salvation, I know my faults and weaknessess all too well, and therefore I know that the only hope I have is the abiding presence of the Spirit of God that gives me daily everything I need to stay the course. I'm not kept because I cannot lose my salvation. I am kept because I trust in God to keep me. If I ever place my trust in anything else it will be my downfall.

    In Christ,
    Deborah
     
  4. TCGreek

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    Pilgrimer,

    1. I will ask the same questions of you that Tom Butler, above, has posted.

    2. It seems to me that your salvation is based on your performance and not on what Christ did at the Cross for you.
     
  5. standingfirminChrist

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    Seeing the title of this thread reminded me of a song I remember singing quite often in the Assemblies of God Church as a pre-teen. The song was "It Is Mine" written by Elisha Hoffman. It tells of the peace Christ gives for all eternity.

    The irony of it is this... the AoG believes one can lose one's salvation.

    Isn't it hypocritical to sing songs such as "It Is Mine" if one does not truly believe it is theirs for all eternity?
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    If you believe you can lose your salvation, then you must not believe Christ's Words, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

    Surely you do not believe Christ lied when He stated that?

    Is it that you think you can lose your salvation? or that you question whether you truly have it?

    (note: I am not questiioning your salvation. I am pointing out that if you are saved, Christ is with you alway, even to the end of the world.)
     
  7. Pilgrimer

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    Hello TCGree,

    >It seems to me that your salvation is based on your performance and not on what Christ did at the Cross for you.

    Trusting God is not performance . . . it's faith.

    In Christ,
    Deborah
     
  8. TCGreek

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    1. Then what do your faults and weaknesses have to do with your salvation? It seems to me that it's "Trusting God" plus your performance of not having faults and weaknesses.

    2. I'm only trying to understand the statements that you are making.
     
  9. Pilgrimer

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    Hello standingfirminChrist,

    >If you believe you can lose your salvation, then you must not believe Christ's Words, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

    I know Jesus will never leave me or forsake me. But I also know, from long experience, how easily I can drift away from him, though thank God I have never actually forsaken him and pray that I never do.

    In Christ,
    Deborah
     
  10. standingfirminChrist

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    One is given eternal life when one places one's trust in Jesus Christ. If one can lose one's Salvation, then the Word of God lied when it states that one is given eternal life.
     
  11. Pilgrimer

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    >I'm only trying to understand the statements that you are making.

    It's quite alright, these are not simple matters we are discussing.

    >Then what do your faults and weaknesses have to do with your salvation?

    But isn't that what salvation is? Being saved from the power of sin that we might walk in obedience to God?

    >It seems to me that it's "Trusting God" plus your performance of not having faults and weaknesses

    It's more like . . . it's trusting God to deliver me from my faults and weaknessess so that I might be conformed to Christlikeness.

    In Christ,
    Deborah
     
  12. Tom Butler

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    It seems to me that if God saves me, and I can then sin away that salvation, that my hope for eternity will last about a half a day, if that long. The first sin I commit will do me in.

    That it, unless there are what Catholics call mortal sins and venial sins. Some will send you to hell, others won't. Who decides which are which?

    Or does it take more than one sin to lose your salvation? Then, how many. At what point do we cross the line? And what if we cross the line and don't know it?

    And if we do know it, can we get our salvation back?
     
  13. donnA

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    Being 'good' does get or keep anyone saved. Seems your counting an awful lot on your own 'goodness'. The bible calls this 'goodness' filthyrags.
    How many sins does it take to lose your salvation? Which sins cause you to lose your salvation? At what point will you know you've lost your salvation?
    Jesus said He was able to keep what the Father gives Him, means you. You can't out sin Jesus sacrifice.
     
  14. mcdirector

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    The problem is that I am inconsistent - no matter how hard I want to do something - the good thing, the right thing, the godly thing - at times, I don't.

    And that doesn't mean I'm doing bad things. Like timing - could I have spent 10 more minutes on my devotion this morning instead of 10 more minutes on our home business before coming into school?

    There are lots of issues that could be factored in. I'm glad this is not something I have to agonize over.
     
  15. SBCPreacher

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    Here's my 2 cents worth.

    I am my father's son. I will always be his son. No matter what I do, I can not undo the fact that I am his son. That is relationship. Now, when I was disobedient to my father, I could damage my fellowship with him (which happened often growing up), but I could never undo that relationship I have with my father - He is still and will always be my father.

    I have a relationship with my Heavenly Father. It was purchased for me by Jesus Christ. This is even more of a permanent relationship than I have with my earthly father. Now, I can disobey my Heavenly Father (sin) and damage my fellowship with Him, but I can never undo that relationship I have with my Heavenly Father - He is still and will always be my Heavenly Father.

    The point is this: The relationship God's responsibility, and He can take care of it just fine. The fellowship is my responsibility, and no matter how bad I blow it, it doesn't change the relationship.
     
  16. Pilgrimer

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    Hello Tom,

    >It seems to me that if God saves me, and I can then sin away that salvation, that my hope for eternity will last about a half a day, if that long. The first sin I commit will do me in . . . Or does it take more than one sin to lose your salvation? Then, how many. At what point do we cross the line? And what if we cross the line and don't know it?

    I don't think it's a matter of if we sin, none of us are without sin. Nor is it a matter of how many times we sin, the blood of Christ is more than sufficient. But rather, just as you at some point in your life made a conscious decision to trust in Christ for your salvation, so too losing your salvation would require a conscious decision on your part to renounce Christ. Why else would so many multitudes of Christians go to their deaths rather than renounce the Son of God? They could have simply done as Rome bid and stepped up and sprinkled that pinch of incense in the brazier as an act of devotion to the standards of Rome and they would have continued to enjoy life in this world and still have eternal life in the world to come. But most Christians would consider a public renunciation of Jesus to be worse than death.

    >And if we do know it, can we get our salvation back?

    Apparently not because Paul says once those who have been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, if they fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed again unto repentance because they "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6

    In another place Paul says "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and firey indignation which shall devour the adversaries." Hebrews 10:26

    But Paul goes on to say that this is no mere sin he's talking about, but a willful and conscious act: "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment shall he be though worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:28-29

    To "do despite" means to insult or treat with contempt and malice. So yes, I suspect we would know if we crossed that line, and apparently once someone has reached that point and crossed that line . . . it's not possible to return. But then again, I am always forced to stretch my thinking and comprehension when it comes to plumbing the depths of God's mercy so who knows . . .

    God's will be done.

    In Christ,
    Deborah
     
  17. swaimj

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    This statement is not helpful, IMHO, because it can be taken two different ways.

    It could mean: If I could lose my salvation, I would, but since it is impossible, I cannot. Thankfully it is not possible to lose salvation, therefore I do not.

    It could mean: If I could lose my salvation, I would. Believe me I would really like to lose it, but it is not possible.

    The first I can identify with. The second, I do not want to identify with, but it is a possible meaning for the statement.
     
  18. Pilgrimer

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    I agree, sin doesn't change the relationship, Jesus was still God's Son even on the Cross . . . but he still died.

    In Christ,
    Deborah
     
  19. SBCPreacher

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    So, can you (or anyone for that matter) reject Jesus as Savior (a sin) after you've been saved, and find yourself out of relationship with God? I believe that you can't.
     
  20. reformedbeliever

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    So luckily, it is not so much a statement as it is a title. Maybe that is why he goes on to explain the title in his statements? :)

    Edited to add: However after reading the OP :) he does say it is a statement!
     
    #20 reformedbeliever, Jan 11, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2008

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