If Jesus Died On The Cross For You...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel
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    ...could you still die and go to hell?

    Did Jesus die on the cross to give you a "chance" to go to heaven? Or did He die on the cross to "ensure" that you go to heaven?

    Yes, Jesus died on that cross to serve as the sacrificial lamb for sin. My sin! Not "your sin" but "my sin". Yes, He died on the cross for "your sin" but that's between "you" and Him.

    Once completed and the sin debt paid..., the Holy Spirit then began to convict men of their sinful condition(s) and their need for a savior. The door was opened. As the Lord knew from eon's past for whom He was going to call to the knowledge of His saving Grace..., and then accept them into His everlasting presence..., how could we possibly then even have a remote chance of ending up with eternal punishment?

    Yes, we might backslide and turn our backs on the Lord and possibly end up dying in that condition..., but once our Lord has forgiven us of that original sinful condition and He wiped the slate clean..., how could we possibly undue that?

    We are saved by His Grace. Then, He continues with us the result of His Grace! Accordingly, there is nothing we can do to "earn" any additional "favors" from Him. There is absolutely nothing we can do for Him. He will use us when it pleases Him.

    So, if Jesus died on the cross that day for "me" could I still die and go to hell?

    No way!
     
  2. JonC

    JonC
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    I am curious to how you’d answer the following objections that are often asked in regards to this topic: If Jesus paid your “sin debt” on the Cross, then why must the Holy Spirit begin to convict men of their sinful condition(s) and their need for a savior? If Jesus died for my sins, as a payment in full, then what charge is there against me regardless of my belief in Christ?
     
  3. PreachTony

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    In other words, we're right back to the place of "All = The Elect", and "The World = The Elect", and "Whosoever will = The Elect."

    The work was accomplished on the cross, of that there is no doubt. The sacrifice required for salvation was accomplished on the cross. But if there is nothing we can do, if there is absolutely no input required on our part, then it seems to negate several verse of scripture, namely:

    Some will say Jesus meant these words only to His disciples. If that were so, then why did He allow them to appear in scripture and be passed down to future generations? But He says plainly, if "any man" will come... that , to me, says man is presented a choice in the matter. Just as Adam was, in essence, presented a choice. Adam was given a commandment, and he was then faced with a choice: follow the commandment or break the commandment. He chose the latter. We, likewise, are presented a choice. In my study, it is evident that mankind has a choice. Christ even said of Jerusalem that He would've gathered them as a hen gathers her chicks, but they would not. If they had no choice in the matter, then why would Christ word this as though they did. It would be deceitful if you or I said something like that. Since we know Christ is not deceitful, as He is God, and God cannot lie, then it stands to reason that Jerusalem could've chosen to follow Him.

    The sacrifice of Christ is necessity unto us because the blood of bulls and goats could only atone for so long.

    One of the biggest issues I have regarding the Calvinist ideal of Election is the use of preaching within such a doctrine. How do you preach to a group of people that God may not love? How do you preach Christ crucified, resurrected, and ascended to people that God may never grant the grace to repent? However, as I said earlier, my studies have shown me that the Bible does not teach the Calvinist ideal of Election.

    Paul says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the preached Word of God. That doesn't seem to fit the Calvinist doctrine.

    Now, like you wrote, I do hold to once a person is saved, they are saved. They can die in a backslid condition, but that does not take away their salvation.
     
  4. HAMel

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    I am curious to how you’d answer the following objections that are often asked in regards to this topic: If Jesus paid your “sin debt” on the Cross, then why must the Holy Spirit begin to convict men of their sinful condition(s) and their need for a savior? If Jesus died for my sins, as a payment in full, then what charge is there against me regardless of my belief in Christ?

    Does ones wife ever call (convict) the family that dinner is ready?

    Otherwise, we're but a bunch of ignorant sheep in need of constant oversight. Left to our own devices..., well..., I'm sure even those who would object most vehemently would begin to figure it out, one would think. But then again...
     
  5. Zaac

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    Your question needs some clearing up.

    Scripture tells us 2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2

    He died to be the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the WHOLE world. That's EVERYONE. Jesus died so that whosoever believeth shall be saved

    So He died on the cross for everyone, but not everyone will believe that He did and be saved.

    So yes, even though Jesus died on the Cross for all, some will forsake what He did and go to Hell.

    As He sits on the throne during the 1000 year reign as King of Kings, some will still forsake Him and be cast into the lake.
     
  6. Crabtownboy

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    Yes, the answer is "Yes".
     
  7. HAMel

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    Bottom line is, PreachTony..., we don't have a handle on much of anything when it comes to the mysteries of our Lord, now do we?

    You reference Matthew 16:24. "If any man will"..., but man won't. Not on his own accord that is. You reference Romans 10:13-15. "For whosoever shall call upon..." but man won't. Not on his own accord that is.
     
  8. righteousdude2

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    The scripture tells me that when I accept Him into my heart and life my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life. In Gal. 1:15-24, Paul made the case for me to confidently say: "If God said it, I believe it, AND that SETTLES it for me!"

    As for me, like my dear brother HAMel said, my salvation is between God and me, and I do not believe that a heavenly legal adoption into the family of God will ever be voided or rescinded. In layman's terms, God does not own or even know what White Out is, and He has no erasers in heaven.

    I am not only wonderfully and marvelously saved .... I am saved forever. If I slide, that is something God will address at my final judgement, besides, I can't see anyone who knows the joy of salvation, ever turning back. We may get sidetracked from time to time, but Jesus did not promise the path would be without its struggles (Matt. 7:13-14).

    I have to give HAMel a hand for saying it like it is :applause: :applause: :applause:
     
  9. JonC

    JonC
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    No, I am never convicted by a call to dinner...although sometimes I am convicted afterwards.

    I know there are many different ways this is viewed, so let me pause to make sure I understand your position. The “call,” in your view, is an announcement or invitation to what is already accomplished. I was never “not saved,” or in a state which could be described as being an “enemy” of God because two thousand years ago Christ paid the sin debt I owed. In essence, I was born without sin being reckoned to me as there was no sin left unpaid at the Cross (towards the elect). I was personally never in need of a Savior because the potential need was satisfied in actuality before I was conceived. Am I tracking close enough with the statements posted thus far?

    BTW, I like your focus on personal salvation.
     
    #9 JonC, Nov 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2014
  10. Iconoclast

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    hey dude
    God said it, that settles it. whether you believe it or not.
     
  11. Yeshua1

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    The method ordained by God in order to have that effectual grace get applied towards those intended to have been saved by the cross though is faith in Christ...

    God determined that they would have a real and definite atonment made by death of jesus, but that they would receive that salvation by means of grace alone, but thru faith alone!
     
  12. JonC

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    So, the Cross served as a definite but potential atonement for those God intended to save and this potential atonement became a reality when that salvation was received by grace through faith alone (it was potential in that it had to be applied, and is applied through faith ... which would have been impossible at the time Christ)?
     
    #12 JonC, Nov 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2014
  13. GISMYS

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    Yes! Jesus paid (bought us a pardon) for all our sins on that Roman cross but we must confess and repent and believe and accept Him as our Lord and Savior for that pardon(forgivness to wype away our sins. == Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
    and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
    from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
    believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
    is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
    name of the Lord shall be Saved....................
     
  14. JonC

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    Said what....that there was never a time you and I were in need of salvation?
     
  15. JamesL

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    Can you quote a scripture that says such a thing?

    I cannot find any scripture that tells us to accept Him

    I certainly cannot find any which say to accept Him into our heart

    I especially cannot find any which say to accept Him into our life

    What are those supposed to mean, anyway? Sounds mystical, ambiguous, and a whole lot like self effort


    But I recall many scriptures which say to believe upon Him for eternal life, and that those who believe upon Him have life.
     
  16. kyredneck

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    :thumbs::thumbs:


    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Eph 1
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    Yes, as we ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but its on the basis of His shed blood that sins are forgivem and that was same forall the saved!

    Still applied tpwards us though at the hour we first believed...
     
  18. JonC

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    I'm not arguing with ya....just trying to understand the tune being sung.
    But your reply, if I understand correctly, should read "No, as we ALL have sinned..."
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    How about to those who have received Him though?

    IF you have not received Him thru faoth, not saved here, nor after here!
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    Yes, as John writes to all of us who have received Him, they are the ones who are now the children of God!

    So at one time, we were not!
     

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