If one believes that baptisim is essential for salvation, is he damned

Nope.

I attend a Disciples of Christ congregation, and am loyal to the cause of the conservative Disciples. I believe that Christians ought to follow Scripture's teachings on factiousness, accept Christians who disagree without dividing, should follow the Bible and the Bible alone, and the Bible alone precisely.

Catholicism does not teach these things. Catholicism places an extrabiblical Tradition above Scripture in practice, and insists that church unity can only exist when everyone joins them. I certainly do not wish to catalog my disagreements with Catholicism nor my problems with some things that go on in the Catholic organization; they are many and my list would probably be seized for an opportunity for Catholic bashing by some addicts.

I will suffice it to say that among all church groups in existence, it would be among the least likely to have me choose a home congregation from it. You will rarely if ever see me arguing in favor of a distinctive Catholic precept on this board -- I might explain it, but not advocate it.

I agree with Pastor Larry, but did not agree with how he spoke to Matt Black. My concern was acknowledged by Pastor Larry: it was the `how' not the `what' and he handled it with class.

 

Doesn't church of christ throw extra biblical traditoin above scripture? I mean there is no commandment in scripture about one cup verses multiple cups, Musical instruments are very much in use in worship in the Jewish temple note not only in scripture but also in the Qumran find we see it. Jesus having been a Jew would have participated to fulfill the requirements, It claims as do the Catholics that they have their origin from AD 33, also like the catholics they are exclusionary, they also believe in baptismal regeneration, they have a deny the Holy Spirit (which is clearly evidenced in scripture that you claim to follow). And can only marginally be thought to believe in the Trinity which excludes it from all other orthodox christianity and by this I don't mean the classical churches but those as well as main protestants denominations to include baptist. Huh. Sounds like there are a lot of similarities with Catholics.

 

So what?

Are you suggesting that I should be more open to joining the Roman Catholic Church?

What exactly are you getting at?

 

I'm just saying you sound Catholic. What are you saying? You trying to get me to join the Catholic Church?
What exactly are you getting at? As Shakespear said "I do think thou doest protest too much."

 

If you want to convince anyone I am Catholic, you will have a `hard row to hoe.'

Have a good day Thinkingstuff.

 

You too......

 

Salvation is by faith and faith alone. If you are putting your faith in baptism then there is no way one can enter into heaven. Faith alone in Christ alone is the only way to obtain salvation.

Everywhere throughout the NT (and even the OT) the words of Jesus and the Apostles are clear:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
--Note that Jesus said "I am the way," not that baptism is the way. He is the only way. There is no other way but him. If you throw baptism into the mix you have created another gospel, and we all know what Paul says about that in Galatians 1:6-9.

The Gospel is clearly spelled out in 1Cor.15:1-4

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The gospel, by which you are saved: the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. There is no baptism in here. This is as simple as it gets. The atoning work of Christ was done through the death of Christ. It was demonstrated completed by his resurrection.

A rabbi was studying Christianity. He found that its claims were true and was converted. He wrote the words to the Hymn, "I serve a risen Saviour, he's in the world today..." exclaiming "Who can serve a dead Messiah!

He put his faith in Christ alone; baptism had nothing to do with it.
Baptism is a work. We are saved by faith, not of works.

 

If He gives us faith in Christ (which is correct according to Ephesians 1:3) then one must needs be in Christ before one is given faith. Thus, only the elect are given faith. To say that the non-elect are in Christ is a violation of scripture. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus..."

When is it given them? Well, faith is fruit of the Spirit. One has not faith until one has the Spirit dwelling in him/her. When God borns you of His Spirit, He gives you the faith to believe. Thus scripture says that he that believeth hath everlasting life.

 

Answer to "am I ___ for believing that baptism is essential for salvation": "NO" if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you believe on Him, your wrongness about baptism will not be enough to revoke the salvation which Scripture assures us of.

• Acts 16:31b “Believe on the Lord Jesus|, and you will be saved” (ASV|NASB).

Not `might be saved' -- "will be saved."

• John 3:16-8a “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to |condemn| the world; but that the world should be saved through him. |Whoever| believeth on him is not |condemned|” (ASV with |TNIV|).”

• Acts 10:43 says "everyone that believeth on him |receives| remission of sins" (ASV|ESV|ASV).

As long as you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you will be saved.

 

I trust were saying the same thing and not speaking past each other. Eph.1:3 says nothing about the unbeliever having faith. And neither do you in your first paragraph. You also admit that it is a fruit of the Spirit, and therefore cannot be given by God to the unsaved. Thus we seem to agree. But your next statement seems confusing and contradictory to what you have said previously.

Regeneration happens at the same time as salvation. There are not two different processes as some Calvinists believe. Thus an unbeliever puts his faith in Christ, and is regenerated, converted, born of God, saved, and even sanctified all at the same time. It is not a faith that is given to him by God.

 

Ephesians 1:3 says that the Father blesses us with all spiritual blessings in Christ. Faith is a spiritual blessing, thus it is given us in Christ.

Regeneration is one part of salvation, not the whole of salvation. Conversion and regeneration do not happen at the same time. Regeneration precedes conversion. One must have faith for conversion and one must be regenerated to have faith.

 

This folks is Calvinism, and is a good reason why I am not a Calvinist.

Salvation is a one time event that happens once in a person's life. When I prayed and trusted Christ as my Saviour, Christ, by the power of his Holy Spirit came and dwelt within me. At that very moment I was born into His family, regenerated by Him, saved by the power of his blood, sanctified, justified, converted, passed from death unto life, given the gift of eternal life; my sins were eternally forgiven, once and for all. I am secure in the hand of Jesus. It all happened at that one event in history, at that moment in time.
There was not two-step process. Regeneration and conversion takes place at the same time, as does salvation. They cannot be separated.

 

I am in agreement with you on this.

It is not faith that saves, it is Jesus himself in the person of the Holy Spirit that saves. When a man comes to Jesus by faith in his heart for forgiveness of his sins, at that moment he receives the Holy Spirit and is born again. The Holy Spirit is the supernatural power that regenerates you.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

If you truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that he died for your sins, then you will receive him as your saviour. This is believeing, this is depending on Jesus alone for salvation. When you do, God gives you the power (the Holy Spirit) and you are born into God's family.

We are baptized in obedience to Christ. Baptism is an outward profession to the world that you have believed on Christ. I have heard it compared to a wedding ring. You can be married and not wear a ring, and you are still married. But your wife may not be too happy about that. When you wear the ring, you are telling the world you are married and no longer available. And baptism is the same, it is telling the world that you have received Jesus Christ as your saviour. It is identifying yourself with Jesus.

I once heard a missionary from India speak. When a person in India accepts Christ, it is a life-changing event. Many times friends and family will completely shun a Christian. It is a very serious decision there. Christians there are very bold. They will march through the town so that all see, go down into the river and be baptized. It is a public profession of faith in Christ.

Receiving Jesus is very similar to getting married. Jesus is the husband, we are the bride. Now, if you do not think you have to change your life when you get married, you are in for lots of trouble. If on your honeymoon you go out with the boys like you used to do, the Mrs. ain't gonna be smiling when you get home.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. So, if Jesus has saved you from your sins, the very least we can do is show we love him back and obey his commandments.