If the N.T. isn't for the Jew?

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Brice, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Brice

    Brice
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    I was studying and I got to thinking. If Jews disregard the N.T. how do they explain the change in communication with God? What I mean is how do they explain a lack in communication (non burning bush or rumbling from the clouds)? We have an answer by referencing scripture, but they don’t have that liberty.
     
  2. D28guy

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    Brice,

    I've never really thought about that, but my guess is that they would probably rationalise it off by saying that all the miraculous activity in the past was to teach them a lesson, and now God has taught them all the lessons He needs to teach them, so no more are necesarry.

    Just a guess, not sure how accurate.

    Of course, one would think that the last of "their" miracles...the miracle of the tearing of the curtain in half (the one that seperated them from the "holy of holies" in the Temple) just as Christ died on the cross, and the dead coming out of their graves while Christ was dying...would really "speak" to them concerning Christ, but right now the majority do not have "eyes that see", or "ears that hear".

    What a sad thing, and how it must grieve God.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  3. Gold Dragon

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    God's change in communication started before the NT. His primary means during the kings and exilic periods were through prophets.
     
  4. wopik

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    absolut
     
  5. Deacon

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    Among the Jews I associate with, the Bible is interpreted less than literally.

    Major problems have disturbed their interpretation since 70 A.D. sacking of Jerusalem.

    Many that I know do not even have the assurance of an afterlife. :(

    A Christian witness among them is more often than not ignored.

    Rob
     
  6. Jim1999

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    Orthodox Jews have the same biblical values that we have in the evangelical churches, except they limit the scriptures to the Torah, histories and the prophets. God speaks in many ways to them, inluding the still, small quiet voice. Some of the more modern thinking Jews consider their values as just another religion, liberal interpretation, modern application and certainly less than either historical or literal. Many Jews, especially those whose families experienced the holocaust simply abandoned all religious beliefs, and use synagogue for a meeting place and their reigion to establish life's set of values; be as good as you can, live your life and die. Eternal life only continues in the values you teach your children.

    ON witnessing, there is no difference to anyone else. They watch how you live and react. If your life style does not follow what you say you believe, certainly they won't hear you.

    Don't try to cater to them because they are Jews. They really don't like that, and think it is hypocritical. I know a woman who took 40 years just to get her husband to attend a church service. She never preached. She just lived what she believed.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. billwald

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    First, Jesus taught that the OT was sufficient for salvation.

    Second, God also stopped officially communicating with the church.

    Third, The NT provides a social contract for gentiles as the Mosiac Covenant provided one for the Jews.
     
  8. Eric B

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    The Jews explain the post-AD70 world purely in light of rabbinic teaching.

    It seems that since the Temple is gone, men are absolved of blood sacrifice (at least for now), and just keep the Law and doo good works to be counted as "faithful". It seems the rabbis laid all of this out, but there was no thought of why God would ever allow the Temple to be destroyed in the first place, and not offer a new revelation explaining how atonement would be represented afterward. I guess, the rabbis work may be seen as that new revelation, and they also believe in "mosaic oral tradition" (similar to the Catholists' "apostolic oral tradition").

    The Lubavitchers, and their gentile associates, the Noahites even speak as if the sacrificial system was never really valid to begin with. They even point out that "the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sins", (in an attempt to discredit Christ as the fulfillment of the sacrificial system, not acknowledging that this is the very basis of Christ), and once again it is only "doing good works and repenting of every sin" (like some supposedly "Christian" sect advocates here argue) that justifies a person. Yet they don't seem to explain why God ever commanded the sacrifices in the first place, nor offer any biblical authorization of the abandonment of the sacrificial system.
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Christians are ignored among Jews as the Jewish Christians were ignored by many of them in the NT days.

    The Jewish "church" has sufferred the same fate as the RCC. A long lasting, long standing instution that was "derived at one time" from a pure origin and over the many centuries has become so corrupted in doctrine that now both RCC and the Jews hold to many of the same views on evolution-no-matter-what-the-Bible-says and on kinds of purgatory, the spirits of the dead, etc.

    But the Jews - having been around longer than the RCC also have the doctrinal error on Satan being a "good angel".

    They share the RCC view that their traditions trump the Bible and that THEY are the authors of the Bible - the owners, compilers, keepers etc.

    What is really amazing is how they have deleted the promise of the Messiah. They have to ADMIT that Jewish history actually predicted a PERSON and that now they have "changed that idea" from what they admit was their early history of belief!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. billwald

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    Jesus taught that the OT was sufficient for salvation.
     
  11. wopik

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    so did Paul ---


    2Tim
    3:14
    But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed, knowing those from whom you learned,


    3:15
    and that from childhood you have known the sacred Scriptures, which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.


    the only sacred Scriptures Timothy would have known "from childhood" were the OT Scriptures.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    All good points. Heb 11 points us to striking examples of salvation in the OT.

    Christ never said of John the baptizer "too bad he was never saved".

    Never do we see the OT or NT text present Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Samuel, Abel, Noah as "poor lost souls that were never saved".

    Now you have to ask yourselves - how much "Bible" DID Abraham have!!?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. billwald

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    "faith in Christ." The catch word is "in" It has so many meanings that I never know what it means. God can save anyone "in" Christ, yes? If the theory of the Trinity is correct then "in Christ" is the functional equivalent of "in the Holy Spirit" or "in God."
     
  14. wopik

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    Bear in mind also that all Jesus' disciples were Jews. They had all grown up attending synagogue and had learned to read the Scriptures in synagogue schools. How did Jesus' disciples look at the Sabbath day? These are questions we can answer with clarity.


    The Sabbath was not merely a sign of who the Jews were, but the sign that identified who their God was - by name:

    "Verily my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am Jehovah."


    For a Jew in the first century, changing the Sabbath was unthinkable. It would be tantamount to changing his God.


    http://www.abcog.org/ntsab.htm
     
  15. Brice

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    Thanks for the answers up to this point. So let me see if I’m comprehending this correctly. For the Jews the O.T. is sufficient for salvation and they since they now have the O.T., this explains the change in “communication” with God? Thanks again and God bless.
     
  16. billwald

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    &gt;The Jews explain the post-AD70 world purely in light of rabbinic teaching.

    Christians explain the post - AD70 world purely in light of the Destruction and the loss of influence of the Jewish Christians to the gentiles.
     
  17. BobRyan

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    Ok so se see the saints of the OT (for example John the baptizer and the saints listed in Heb 11) --

    But getting to the point of this thread - did the living saints at the time of Christ "all fall from grace" when He died on the cross?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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