if the pope dies

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by massdak, Oct 1, 2003.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    the catholic church will soon have a new pope with his turn to make new changes. it is interesting but could you imagine if a pope became born again and then turned the church upside down with his conversion and his denoucing all that the church has stood for from the beginning, what a shock it would be, also his life then would be in danger. but knowing this pope now he will soon be gone, and it is sad that he will die in his sins.
     
  2. Thankful

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    And How do you know this?

    Do you have a special God given gift to know if a person is going to Heaven or not?

    Matthew 7:1-2 (NIV)

    1. Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

    2. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
     
  3. mioque

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    :rolleyes:
    a much more interesting question is:" Would you notice it, if a pope did try to reform the church in a direction that is more to your liking?"
    Answer: NO.
     
  4. massdak

    massdak
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    are you asking me how i know the pope will die and not go to heaven? well based on the popes stance on salvation it is clear to most if not all born again Christians that he needs to repent from dead works and to believe on the Lord Jesus without added works or merit from the church. if you believe the popes position is different then the catholic church he represents then think again. a person should be able to know who to witness to and not to a Christian should make judgments based on what people believe, it comes in handy when giving the gospel.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    the opening question is "IF the pope dies.." Does this suggest he might be in the fundamentalist's rapture beforehand?

    In my Father's house are many mansions.....all partioned off so that one will think he is the only one there. The rest of us will enjoy the other mansions and great fellowship with fellow believers.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Thankful

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    I am not a Catholic, but I have in my hands a Catholic Bible and I will quote from the Catholic Bible:

    Romans 10:9 For if thou confess with thy mouth that Jesus is the Lord, and believe in thy heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
     
  7. Flippo

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    So what if the Catholic Bible says that? You can also be saved from the New World translation. Does the pope believe salvation is by faith alone or does he believe one must go through all the sacrements to be saved? Just because Romans 10:9 is in his Bible does not mean that is all he believes.

    Phil
     
  8. Thankful

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    Do the rituals keep the Pope from being saved?
     
  9. Chet

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    Absolutely they do if he believes (and he does) they are part of the requirements to enter eternal life.

    If I ever met the Pope I would not be shaking his hand calling him my brother. If it were permissible I would do all I could to witness to him about the Jesus of the Bible, the one that saves completely and has sat down at the right hand of God the Father. This Jesus can set him free from the jesus he now serves in his mass.

    If you believe that I am judging him then you are right. I guess the Pope can judge me right back with the same measure.
     
  10. Flippo

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    Basic Catholic doctrine is that taking part in the sacrements (rituals) is part of salvation.

    Phil
     
  11. Jim1999

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    How is it that fundamentalists can promote the easy believism..believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved......just sign this statement and you are saved.......but when it comes to others, it just ain't so? I am not making excuses for the pope's extra-biblical concepts, but you can't have it both ways either.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    This topic DEMANDS the input of some of our Catholic BB'ers, so I am moving it to the Other Religion Forum. It is not right for just Baptists to speculate on this matter that will mostly impact Catholicism worldwide.
     
  13. Mike McK

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    Sadly, it looks like il pappa is in bad shape.

    I'd like to see Cardinal Bevilaqua have a crack at wearing the big hat, but that won't happen.
    Just as a side note, I have a small connection to Bevilaqua. His brother was one of my teachers in jr high school.

    I don't know if the pope is saved anymore than I know if anybody here is saved. I don't have the information, nor do I want that responsibility, to make such decisions.

    All I know is that he claims Christ as his savior and, up until fairly recently in his papacy, I was grateful for the conservative stands he took.
     
  14. Lorelei

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    If he got saved and denounced the church's teaching, he would more than likely be removed and be considered as an anti-pope. They would appoint another pope and still count this man in the line of apostolic succession even though he recanted everything they believed in.

    However, this is very unlikely to happen. Those in the leadership of the church have to be very aware how much their church has done to keep the church supposedly "unified". How does the saying go? Absolute power corrupts absolutely?

    As for those saying we can't judge the pope. They not only believe a false doctrine, they TEACH one. Paul has already judged people who do such a thing rather firmly.

    You wouldn't say the same about Mormon's, JWs or Muslims would you? No, you would "judge" them according to their doctrine. We can and should do the same with Catholics and any faith that "claims" to be Christian. Throwing the title on your church's name does not make the church automatically part of the body of Christ.

    ~Lorelei
     
  15. Ray Berrian

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    Not only does the Pope believe in salvation by faith plus works, but also many Protestant denominations also. Probably very few Protestants really believe that it is our first faith in Christ that actually saves our souls at last. The Pope and his church just has another way of expressing salvation by faith plus human works. I think he has served his church very well and I hope his passing is easy and that he goes into the Presence of our Lord.
     
  16. neal4christ

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    Amen, Thankful! Why do some around here have to be so presumptuous? I am not God, and I would venture to say many here are not (really, all [​IMG] ). Why pass judgment on the man? I am thankful for many of his stands on moral issues, especially abortion and homosexuality. Come on, guys and gals, find something better to do than play God and determine people's salvation!

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  17. Jude

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    Flippo, I must say that your ignorance of Roman Catholic teaching is astounding! I would suggest doing a bit more study of RC doctrine before you criticize it. I am not RC, but many Anglicans believe similarly regarding the issue of salvation. So does St James...
    James 2:22 NASB You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
     
  18. GraceSaves

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    Sadly, I fear John Paul II doesn't have too many more years on this pilgrim planet. Thankfully, I see him as a very faithful servant of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and can't wait to sing Glory to God with him in Heaven one day!


    As opposed to...old changes? ;) Just kidding. This statement begs the questions that previous Popes have made "changes," but of course, then again, you don't even mention what these changes deal with. Doctrine? The color on the outside of St. Peter's? I'll just assume that you're statement had no ill-will in it. [​IMG]

    Yes, I could imagine it...or I could realize that such a thing already exists. [​IMG]

    I don't know about you, but I see "turning the church upside" is a bad idea, considering it's Jesus' church.

    Like, that Jesus is the Son of God? That our God is Triune? That Holy Scripture is inerrant? Or did you mean that Mary is the Mother of God? And Apostolic Tradition? Because, the Church has stood for all of the above from the beginning.

    Yes, the Reformation WAS a shock! And quite unnecessary, too.

    Jack Chick strikes again! Let me guess...it'll be the Jesuits? [​IMG]

    So, when do we get to judge you? I mean, I guess we're just taking turns judging people. When am I up for review by my peers, who get to make these kinds of decisions?!?
     
  19. WPutnam

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    Thank you, Dr. Bob! It's been a coon's age since I have talked to you!

    You are right, it does need some Catholic input here, but for now, I am gong to monitor and I will respond at the appropriate time.

    But so far, I see some responses here I appreciate very much insofar as judging the salvation of an individual is concered, since only God knows the heart.

    "Judge not, least you be judged."

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!
     
  20. AngelforChrist

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    How about the assumption of mary? Wasnt that a new change? Papal infallibility? Those are a couple of changes arent they? If I am not mistaken early popes condemend the teaching that mary was assumed , yet recently its become a new teaching again , cant help but wonder which one was the infallible pope...

    Does this statement mean you beleive that only the RCC is Jesus's church?


    Tell me if you can a nessesity for indulginces and how rich people sin less than poor ones?
     

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