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If You Don't Believe in Just War Theory, What is Your Alternative?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by FR7 Baptist, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I think they are just because you think they are unjust. I have found so many things that I think you're dead wrong about, I believe if I take the opposite, I'll be certain to be right.
     
  2. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your honesty.

    Why don't we discuss them calmly and rationally. I have moved quite a distance on this subject since I was young.
     
  3. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Careful...if you insult Crabby, he might not answer your questions and assign you more homework.

    Oops. Too late.
     
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Two topics. One a theory and the other a hypothetical situation. So no u-turn at all ... only in your mind ... or is it that you simply want to avoid answering my question to you?

    Are you ever going to answer my question?

    I said that I cannot find anything in the teachings of Jesus supporting war.
    I also said that in rare instances I believe there are just wars.

    You suggested this is a contradiction. It may be. I am and have for years been thinking about this topic. I have moved quite far in my thinking on this, but have not come to a final decision.

    Now you said that you believe there are just wars. Which ones in your opinion were just.

    Can you show me where Jesus taught that war is all right?



     
  5. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Can you show me where Jesus taught a just war doctrine? Can you show me where Jesus told a government how to handle war?

    Look, if you want to argue a just war idea, go ahead, be my guest. But you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot attempt to use the teachings of Jesus to argue against war and then turn around and argue for a just war theory, something Jesus never spoke about or advocated. The truth is, and you've never yet had a rebuttal for this, Jesus never told a governmental body how to handle war. He didn't tell governments to wage war, not to wage war, when to wage war, how to wage war, or what constitutes a just war. Never did. You won't find it in His teachings. Therefore, you cannot use His teachings to push your position on how government should handle war.
     
  6. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Oh, but Jesus would never bomb anyone!!!!
     
  7. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I agree with you. Jesus would not bomb anyone ... other than the fundamentalists of his day the Pharisees. They were the ones he came down hard on.

    RAdam ... I will answer your post as soon as I have time. I appreciate your comments very much.
     
  8. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Jesus could have called down fire from Heaven to zap the Pharisees but he didn't.

    >I said that I cannot find anything in the teachings of Jesus supporting war.
    >I also said that in rare instances I believe there are just wars.

    These statements are NOT inconsistent. As St John wrote, Jesus taught lots of stuff that were not included in the text.

    This is a "regulative principle" sort of problem. See google
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    There is hypocrisy and a contradiction to use Christ's name to critisize those who supported the Iraq invasion, and then admit to not knowing what constitutes a just war.
     
  10. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I agree with both of you. Jesus never, as far as I can see, talked about any war being just.

    As I said in other posts, I have moved a long way since I was young on this topic. I am not at a point where I can say that WW II was an unjust war. In Christ's opinion perhaps it was, but I cannot see that at this point in my life.

    Granted the conditions that made it possible for Hitler to come to power came about from the unjust peace that was imposed on Germany at the end of WW I. If Wilson's ideas had been accepted by the Europeans, as far as the peace treaty with Germany had been followed, I do not believe Hitler would have come to power. But the European allies wanted revenge and they got it through the draconian clauses of the peace treaty.

    I cannot say that I believe WW I was just. A number of alliances had been signed by countries between the years 1879 and 1914 that meant that some countries had no option, other then to renege on a treaty, but to declare war if one of their allies. declared war first. The Moroccan crisis of 1904 and the Serbian crisis in 1908 were steps toward war, but did not in themselves start the war. There were other tensions and problems, but again they did not spark the war. The spark that set off the war was the assassination of of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in 1914. I cannot see how his assassination justified the war and the death of millions of people.
     
    #50 Crabtownboy, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2010
  11. targus

    targus New Member

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    What a hypocrite.

    So Jesus never talked about any war being just...

    But according to you anyone who supported the Iraq war wants to the words of Jesus out of the Bible.

    Crawl back under your rock.
     
  12. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Show me where Jesus talked about a just war. Give me scripture, please. As far as I know there are no words of Jesus to be taken out since he did not speak to the subject. Perhaps you are trying to add words.
     
  13. targus

    targus New Member

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    are you deliberately obtuse?
     
    #53 targus, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2010
  14. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    All I am asking is for you to show me where Jesus talks about a just or unjust war. So, please do so. Give me scripture please.
     
    #54 Crabtownboy, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2010
  15. targus

    targus New Member

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    I have not said that Jesus said anything about a just war - so I will not be providing you with support for a position that I have not taken.

    Is there more than one person posting on the Crabtownboy account or are you just trolling?
     
  16. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    If you were not suggesting that Jesus talked about a just war or an unjust war, then what were you trying to say in the first quote above? Was it simply an attempt to insult with no substance behind it?

    So, in light of your first quote, either explain what you meant, or give me some scripture. Thanks in advance.
     
  17. targus

    targus New Member

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    I was repeating what you said - for emphasis - in making my point that on this subject you are a hypocrite.

    You admit that Jesus did not advocate Just War.

    But you accept Just War.

    You were snotty and critical of those who support/supported the Iraq war - saying that Jesus did not advocate war.



    You have no standing in this discussion.
     
    #57 targus, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2010
  18. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    And you said you believe in a just war. I answered your question, now answer mine. Which wars do you consider just and which unjust?

    I did not say that Jesus did not support a just war theory. I said there is nothing in his teachings about war. There is a difference. I also said that I might be wrong about the just war theory. If I am, then all wars are unjust.

    I am still waiting for scripture from you to support your position.

    What say you?
     
  19. targus

    targus New Member

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    If Jesus did not advocate Just War - then where do you get off critcizing supporters of the Iraq war by say that Jesus did not advocate war?

    You want it both ways,
     
    #59 targus, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2010
  20. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    That's easy. Because under any criteria of a just war the Iraq war comes out as an unjust war.

    And I have admitted I may be wrong about a just war.

    Now, I am still waiting for you to support your position with scripture. You say that you support a just war. You must believe that Jesus agrees with your, else you would not give me such a hard time. Now support your position with scripture. Thanks.
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