Featured If you don't know why then how do you know its unconditional?

Agreed and amen.

It is these who contrary to the call to come without money and receive believe they do have the means to come, "Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price." Isaiah 55:1

Or as the error of the OP suggests, that they are chosen due to some good or reason on their part. As I stated, such an argument and philosophy is against grace and is against it 100%.

 

God is no respector of persons.God is not a debtor to us in any way.

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

 

These texts are not used to prove anything. These texts are self-revealing. They reveal that all men are ungodly, sinners, and in darkness. Romans 3 goes on to describe mankind as "none righteous, not even one" (Rom. 3:10). Romans 6:6 refers to the sinner's "body of sin" and that sinners are "slaves to sin". So, I can authoritatively state that no one is chosen because of any good they have done.

I am not concerned with what "Calvinists readily admit". I am concerned with the truth of scripture.

If you are asking me why God chose Mary and did not choose Bob, I will point you to Ephesians 1:5, 6 which states, "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved." That Mary was saved was due to the "kind intention of His will" and was for "the praise of the glory of His grace". Even more than that Philippians 2:13 tells us, "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." So, basically, God elects individuals because it pleases Him to do so. To even ask God "why" is to justly deserve the the rebuke of Romans 9:20, 21 "On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make one from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?"

 

Herald,all you have written above is soundly biblical and therefore totally unacceptable to many on the BB.

 

Do I really need to quote Ephesians 2:1; 1 Corinthians 2:14; and Romans 8:7? Obviously I do.

Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins

1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

You and I debated this earlier this year. It seems to be a favorite topic of yours. When things get too quiet on this board you have to scratch the same itch again.

 

The only good, Biblical and reasoned responses in this thread come from those within the reformed camp. Great job!

 

Ephesians 1 does not teach Unconditional Election, it says we were chosen "in him" which is conditioned on faith. No one is "in Christ" until they believe on Jesus in time.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

No one is "in Christ" until they believe on Jesus in time;

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Paul said Adronicus nd Junia were "in Christ" before he was. This shows that a Christian is placed "in him" or "in Christ" in their lifetime when they actually believe on Jesus.

Then how could God choose us "in him" before the foundation of the world? FOREKNOWLEDGE. The scriptures say we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.

1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God chose those persons he foresaw in his foreknowledge would believe on Jesus in time. God foresaw in his foreknowledge that Paul would believe on Jesus and chose and elected him upon this condition.

Those who do not believe on Jesus are not placed "in Christ" and therefore cannot be chosen "in him". Election is absolutely conditional, conditioned upon believing on Jesus.

Another verse that shows Christians were elected or chosen upon the condition of faith in Jesus is 2 Thessalonians 2:13;

2 Thes 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Yes, God chose Christians from "the beginning", but it was "through" both sanctification of the Spirit AND belief of the truth. Only those who believe the truth of the gospel were chosen.

This verse is not saying a person was chosen to believe, it is saying a Christian was chosen "through" belief of the truth.

Therefore, election is conditioned on believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Men do this in time, but God in his foreknowledge could foresee who would believe and chose them.

 

Icon, (serious not sarcastic) why do you (and many others) always "seem" to presume that those of us who do not share your position on the DoG, fail to recognize our "position" before God. It is almost as if you want to corner the "sinfulness" and "transgression" market. It often seems you want to "say" that we think less our sinfulness, or perhaps we think we are "better" than yourself. Why is that? No one ever seems to suggest so, yet that "message" from 'yall" seems to be repeated over and over. I really do not understand that.

 

QF,

Probably because your position seems to suggest that man has an abundance of ability,unlike isaiah who says he was....UNDONE....also see Jn in rev 1....he was with Jesus on earth for years, yet when he saw Him in glory...he fell at His feet as a dead man.

I do not mean it to sound funny, but when most cals write what we do...it is not in reference to non cals....it is in reference to God himself. We do see Him as Lord of All...if he says jump..we say how high, not why do you expect us to jump, or explain to me why you want me to.

 

True.


God chose the weak. Certainly, but not because they are weak. Scripture gives the because for choosing as for 'His own purpose.'

God chooses the humble. Not because they are humble, but this state is of the redeemed, it is not a prerequisite nor a reason for being chosen to salvation, James 4:6, Psalm 138:6 -- it simply describes the state of the redeemed, note also Matthew 5.

God does not choose because one is humble, and the simple fact of the matter all who are lost are out of the way, lost, sick, hostile, enemies &c. Again the cause is His purposes and calling, not for any condition in man. Any other ideology against this speaks against salvation by grace, which is exactly the end result of the OP and it's objective.

But the OP has already been answered numerous times. The rest is simply to be contemptuous.

Scripture is clear, election to salvation is unconditional. Furthermore, not MANY are noble &c, it doesn't say ANY. It is all according to His purpose, not because of the condition of man.

But we will see a fight against this and boasting before the LORD that some were chosen 'because' which is the standpoint of the OP by the way.

 

Election and salvation are one in the same. None are saved who were not chosen, none who are the chosen will miss salvation and all chosen are chosen unconditionally.

Any other position denies salvation by grace.

 

When something is unconditional the purpose is to get people to come just as they are, not to tell people they can't come.

We are to encourage others to believe period this is what the scripture tells us.

If they don't believe in Christ they are not saved.

If they don't come they are on their own, because there is no condition for them to be saved just come as you are.

Is is a shame how some deal with this, but all scripture points us to Jesus and we should be doing the same.

I have no problem with unconditioned election, it is the truth. I just don't agree how some use it.