If you drove like you studied, would you be arrested?

The dificulty in that is that there are several layers of truth to every single verse of His Word. It takes years, a lifetime, to fully understand the depth of wisdom contained within. In the meantime, we will stumble and occasionally fall. The trick is to remain faithful, and believe that His ultimate truth will be revealed fully to you and me one day.

love,

Sopranette

 

Quite often the tactic of crying "fundamentalist" is used by those who do not like what scripture says.

 

I might at least get a ticket, since I don't signal before I turn the page.

 

Nope. There's no one around when I study to see if I'm studying too fast.

 

There are a lot of false prophets out there, waiting to lead us astray. Satan is constantly searching like a roaring lion for those who do not seek God's strength. And there are those who are still milk fed, too weak to continue studying, so they give up.
Would I get a ticket? Maybe. And if the "cop" were to ask me to step out of the car and name every part of my car's engine, I would certainly fail!

love,

Sopranette

 

If the "cop" was a respectable and genuine man of God, of course I would! My intentions are pure, well meaning, and sincere, but not always accurate and sometimes clumsy!

love,

Sopranette

 

Hello Sgt. Fury. As I have read your profile and noticed that you call your place of Sunday attendance is "___ church of Christ" without normal capitalization, I see where you are going.

If I drove like I studied, I would drive all the time. I would examine every detail of what I was doing.

However, if I was to drive with the assumption that every non-mention was either always prohibition, or always permission, meant one or the other, or meant anything, I would quickly run into problems.

For instance, if I saw a sign on I-74 that tells me that Cincinnati is one way and Indianapolis is the other, under no-mention assumptions common to the Churches of Christ, I would infer that I am only permitted to drive on that road to Indianapolis or Cincinnati.

That would be fallacious. It is 100% legal for people to use that road to get to many other points in Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois.

Another example would be "No turn on red. Curb lane excepted." Under the mindset common in the Churches of Christ, I would sit in the curb lane and think `Well, it does not say that I must, so I will not do it. I also will do everything I can to get everyone else not to do it too.'

Just one person doing that is enough to cause a traffic jam that reaches the interstate and create potential for rear-impact car accidents at high speeds. That would be idiotic. Road sign makers rightly assume that they do not need to spell out to rational drivers that they should try to turn right on red with opportunity.

Another example would be signs that tell me `This-or-that-town' is at exit # such-and-such.' If I was to infer that this meant I was directed to go there, I would be lengthening my trip exorbitantly -- and foolishly.

Road signs and road markers sometimes
1) are directives that forbid any other course of action,
2) give permission,
3) inform you of how you can get somewhere,
4) give information upon which no course of action is required.
We are expected to be responsible and use common sense and know the difference.

The Bible is no different.

 

If we applied your `assumptions of inference' to assembled congregational worship, we could not have church meetings.

The New Testament never teaches that every New Testament-era congregation ran every meeting the same way -- let alone that such was commanded. 1 Corinthians 14:26-33 tells that congregation to devise an order, and introduces directive guidelines, and 14:40 repeats that injunction. If there was a uniform congregation pattern they were supposed to be following, the directive guidelines and mandate to create an order would have been unnecessary.

Further, the New Testament does not give us enough details to surmise without conjecture even a single meeting of a single congregation from start to finish in order.

Therefore, if we were to attempt to make `congregational worship' only what is explicitly stated in Scripture, we could not have meetings. In doing something simple such as deciding in which order to put the Lord's Supper and meeting the Hebrews 10:24-5 purpose, we would have to do something not explicitly stated in Scripture.

Scripture is given "so that the| person who serves God| may be complete, | entirely instructed for all good work”* per 2 Timothy 3:16-7. The Scriptures are a handbook so that people who have committed to serve the Lord will be instructed on doing good works with their lives.

The major problem with common Church of Christ perceptions is the assumption that the Bible was given primarily as a handbook on how to run congregations. This is clearly not the case. The New Testament is replete with directives on regular Christian living, and is scant on attention to congregation meetings. The reason for that has been shown.

Therefore, the New Testament was not intended to give us a rulebook of congregational music. You are doing something like looking for how to solve a geometry problem by looking in an algebra textbook. Algebra textbooks deal with geometry some as a means of instructing in algebra, but algebra textbooks do not exist for that purpose. You are trying to get comprehensive answers to a question Scripture was not provided to address.

Nonetheless, Scripture does give us information about use of musical instruments. New Testament-era Revelation 5:8-14 reports John present with πρεσβυτεροι “elders” = congregation leaders “each holding a harp” (ESV) as they “sing” (ASV) to the Lord. It is unrealistic to think “sing” means the harps were not used for their purpose. John was present for this during the New Testament era.

Acts 13, 14, 17, and 18 report Christians participating in synagogue worship, and thereby worship with musical instruments: synagogues had shofars, a type of horn.** Acts 2:46 reports Christians “day by day, attending the temple together” (ESV); daily temple services involved choirs singing with instrumental accompaniment.^*

So, while Scripture never directly addresses use of musical instruments in congregational worship, it does give us information so that we know it happened. We know it is not forbidden.

Therefore, if we were to go with the 1 Corinthians 4:6 precept, we would not speak where Scripture is silent by adding a ban against musical instruments.
______
*NBV|ICB|ASV|RVR 1909 “enteramente instruído para toda buena obra” translated.
**Archaeological Study Bible, page 1783.
^*Punton, The World Jesus Knew, pages 124-125.

 

Determining an order for any of these things is done without the express statement of Scripture. We would have to make determinations of order without being told what to do from Scripture.

As I indicated, if we were going to go only with what is explicitly stated in Scripture for congregation meetings, we could not have them. It does not tell us everything about them. We would have to do things that are not mentioned.

For instance, it does not tell us whether the song leader is supposed to go to the front from the congregation, or to already be seated up front. How is the offering to be taken, because it does not say whether or not we are to go to the baskets or the baskets brought to us. Appointing someone to `lead us in prayer' or `direct our thoughts' during congregational prayer is an activity that Scripture never mentions. Remember, in the view you are presenting, nothing can happen in assembled worship that is not stated in Scripture.

As for the "five acts of worship," you left out a couple that James 1:26-7 tells us to do, plus one mentioned by Paul in Romans 12. As for your selection of five, do we know all five of these things happened every meeting? You seem to assume that they did. I believe that is an assumption that would have to be proven.

Any congregational meeting at all.

I have not knowingly misrepresented your view. I am getting my impressions of what you believe from what you write.

As you make clear from your posts here, you do believe that any action in assembly that is not mentioned in Scripture is an addition and a failure to obey. This reflects a view that the New Testament has for a primary purpose to be a handbook of congregational operations.

From the looks of things, it appears that perhaps you are the individual who is getting into a huff. I got my impressions of your view from the things you write.

Are you now denying that the Scriptures are meant to be an instructional handbook of how congregational worship is to be done? If so, what is your continued opposition to musical instruments based on? After all, if it is not, then the non-mention of musical instruments in congregational worship would mean exactly what I think it does: nothing.

Agreed on the fact that some parts of Revelation are symbolic. However, "signified" (KJV) in this case means to communicate something; in more modern English it is "show" (ESV, NASB).

However, the worship of Revelation 5 did occur during the New Testament era, and John was present, and he did not record it with a future tense. Further, πρεσβυτεροι were holding harps while they sang. That Greek word is transliterated "presbyters" and translated "elders" and refers to congregation leaders in the New Testament.

Therefore, the passage shows that during the New Testament era, use of musical instruments in worship was expressly approved by God.

Explaining this passage away is easy in the Churches of Christ. However, outside of them, I believe few would be convinced that God approved of musical instruments in the past, and still does in Heaven -- but suddenly not on the earth, when He never said so.

Paul did not become as a Jew: Paul was a Jew.

He makes that clear. Acts 21 reports where Paul himself was following the Judaic Law. In Acts 23:8, Paul identifies himself as a Pharisee.

Paul was a Jew. Paul was a Jewish Christian, like others. Acts 21 indicates that there were Jewish Christians -- they continued to follow the customs of the Judaic Law, but knew Gentiles were not bound to do so. Jewish Christians continued to go to synagogue and the temple for worship, and this would have involved musical instruments.

Again, you are assuming that non-mention universally condemns.

That is an assumption that would have to be proven. Scripture never states it.

To mandate that non-mention is always equal to a ban would be to mandate where Scripture has not spoken, in violation of the precept at 1 Corinthians 4:6.