If you think the Southern Bap Convention controls local churches...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Mar 18, 2012.

  1. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
  2. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    How thinks the SBC controls local churches?
     
  3. Ed B

    Ed B
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Church of Christ friends for one. They think that local church autonomy is a CoC distinctive.
     
  4. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow.

    I had never read that before, in all my years as a baptist. I really love the degree to which the SBC keeps thier nose out of the local churchs buisiness.

    But THIS..is just breathtaking to me....

    There are only 2 times in that material where the SBC will deviate from their wonderfull practice of allowing each church total autonomy, and take charge.

    Those 2 times are...

    1) If a church condones homosexuality and the gay agenda.(I agree)

    2) Women pastors.

    It almost takes ones breath away, to have women pastors being equated with homosexuality.
     
    #4 Alive in Christ, Mar 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2012
  5. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    First - the SBC cannot force a local Baptist church to forbid homosexuality or women pastors. All the SBC, State Conventions or local associations can do is to withdraw fellowship from that local Baptist church.

    Second, both of those items are forbidden in scripture.

    Salty

    PS I'm sure that a person who has been convicted of extortion would not be allowed to serve as a treasurer of a church - does that mean that you equate women pastors with extortion?
     
    #5 Salty, Mar 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2012
  6. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    Salty.....

    Actually, Homosexuality, yes. But there is is a veeeeery looooong thread on this site that contains abundent evidence that that is not true regarding women in leadership. Teaching men, pastoring, etc.

    Look it up sometime when you have some free time.
     
  7. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    Hmmm, I wonder if a local church that practiced snake handling would be allowed to associate with the SBC?
     
  8. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would hope they would say that the have no policy on that because the church is autonomous.

    Of course, I wont be attending any snake handling services. :eek:
     
  9. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    4,319
    Likes Received:
    0
    W.A. Criswell would have been okay with it, as long as they were fundamentalist snake handlers. :)
     
  10. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    Correct. The fact that we have long threads on women pastors is only proof that it is still hotly debated on many circles.
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
  12. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,258
    Likes Received:
    186
    If they own it they control it.

    Look at this link and read who owns the church...

    http://www.cbbaptist.com/

    Then see if you can construct an argument that the SBC doesn't control the local church.

    Could this local group withdraw from the convention? Nope

    Could this local group demolish or construct without SBC approval? Nope

    Could this local group determine to higher an arm. thinking preacher rather than a calvinistic thinker? Nope

    Could this local group change their covenant, creed or bi-laws without the SBC approval? Nope.

    But, then no one at the convention would admit they would padlock and change the locks on a church that determined to become independent back some 40 years ago.

    But certainly the SBC doesn't "control" the local assembly.

    :tonofbricks:
     
  13. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    I cant find any of this on that churches web site. Where are all of those restrictions you speak of ?

    How do they control them?
     
  14. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,258
    Likes Received:
    186
    If you own it - you control it. The SBC owns it - they certainly control it.

    Would you assume the SBC would own something and not have control over it?
     
  15. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    Where does the web page say they are "owned" by the SBC? If it says it, I will admit it!


    I agree with "Alive" I see nothing on the web page that shows the church is under control of the SBC.

    Ageman - your profile says your are Bible Bap - is that Bible Bap Fellowship?
     
    #15 Salty, Mar 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2012
  16. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    Ageman - I am bumping this thread - Alive, myself and others are waiting for you to answer our valid questions







    WHEN YOU REMAIN SILENT
    YOU HAVE SPOKEN
    - Bobby Tutton
     
  17. nodak

    nodak
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    15
    Late to the discussion, but just be very aware of what happens at state level.

    If church A borrows money from the state association to build, of course the state has every right to insist that if church A leaves said association or the SBC, the association can have the building. And church A in that case will be far wiser to borrow from a secular bank.

    But sometimes a zealous leader will try to change the rules midstream on old loans. Maybe it had a reversion clause that simply says "if the church ceases to be in full fellowship" or something. Ten years down the line, that church cannot send in the new amount set for it to send the CP or state association, or refuses to sign off on yet another revision to the Baptist Faith and Message, and they can lose their building.

    Yes, what the SBC owns, it controls.

    Keep them off the deed and don't borrow except from secular banks or you DO forfeit your autonomy.
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    One may not directly control something but they can control by influence.
     
  19. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0


    Yes Ageman....Could you please share with us how this autonomous Baptist church is actually being "controlled" by the Southern Baptist Convention. We find ZERO evidence on the link you provided.

    Did you give us the wrong link?

    Thank You
     
    #19 Alive in Christ, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
  20. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    Yes, what the Bank owns, it controls.

    If a bank lends money to a church, and the church forfeits the loan - you loose the bldg.

    Yes, the State or local association may lend money to a church, then it becomes a business deal - and the State/local associating has every right to make a legal contract.


    Nodak, suppose you lend me $1,000 to put down a deposit on an apt. After 2 months I move out and keep the 1 grand deposit. Wouldn't it be better if you had something in writing from the landlord that any deposit refund be sent directly to you. If so, then you are controlling my life.

    One other minor detail - where in the link of the OP, does is say anything about loaning money? The basic OP is about doctrine!!!
     

Share This Page

Loading...