1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

If You're a Calvinist, what type of Calvinist are you?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Herald, Nov 2, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    While all good points it doesn't touch on predeterminism...and besides, can't the one who believed in free will that you questioned reply with the exact same answer?
     
  2. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    Sure, but not when it comes to praying for the lost. If an Arminian prays for God to save someone they really are praying for God to assault that person's will.
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Not even close. When those who are not calvinists (not arminians as you falsely label) pray for the salvation of others we take the fact God has said that "the prayer of the righteous availeth much" and we are praying that God illuminates their heart to the truths that have already been presented to them, that they do not exchange them for a lie, and that He will put those people and circumstances in front of them to see clearly. I've even prayed that if He has judicially hardened someone to lift that.

    Before you tell me how I pray it would help to ask first.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    OK where, Bayonne,Bergen,East Newark, Guttenberg,Harrison,Hoboken,JC, Kearny,
    West New York?

    hopefully your a Giants fan!
     
  5. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    Kearny, born and raised; and yes, I'm a Giants fan. "Cut me, do I not bleed blue?"
     
  6. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ah, I credit you for being a consistent Arminian (even if you reject the term). That's not sarcasm by the way.
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I take it you will have no problem being labeled a Roman Catholic from this point on even if you reject the term? Not only are you ignorant on how to "label" but on the very doctrines you use in doing so.
     
  8. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    You can call me whatever you like. I'll apply labels as I believe they are due. And as Michael Corleone said, "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."
     
  9. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes. I have also prayed for those who seem very hardened to the gospel that God would continue to be patient with them and not give them up or give them over as shown in Romans 1.

    And I am not Arminian also.
     
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Its not business to essentially call someone a liar, its personal. I do not believe one can lose their salvation. I am not an arminian. Period. Its funny...you don't think someone can be an calvinist by being an amyraldist (lacking one point), but have no problem with labeling someone else lacking a point or two. Staple of inconsistency.
     
  11. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    When discussing soteriology anyone who advocates the free will position is advocating Arminianism, although not necessarily Arminianism en toto. That's the way I see it. In fact, that's the way most theologians who debate this subject see it. What you call yourself is fine. I'm not going to argue that you should or shouldn't call yourself something. I'm not seeking agreement here.
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    The problem here is you are not the authority. You yourself said if you do not hold to all 5 points you are not a calvinist, but the table turns and you can be arminian not holding to all points? At least be consistent man! I'm not looking for agreement on the issues, you seem to have your mind set.
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Many Arminians believe that can't lose their salvation --other Arminians think it's possible. In the Articles of the Remonstrance apparently it was up in the air even though Arminius said that no believer can be plucked from Christ's hand.

    So historically speaking just because one insists they can't be Arminian because they believe in eternal security --that's not true --especially when the bulk of their response to the Reformed propositions of lines up with their own theology.
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm smiling at this remark of yours Winman.
     
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    Glad I made you happy. But I am not Arminian, I do not believe you can lose salvation. However, I believe in Preservation, not Perseverance which are very different.

    I also believe all men have the natural ability to believe, which I believe disagrees with Arminianism, however I do not believe any man could possibly believe on Jesus without God's grace of revealing Jesus to us through the scriptures and the convicting power of the Holy Spirit.
     
    #95 Winman, Nov 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2011
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Exactly.
    No one wants to identify with being an arminian because it has been shown to be unsound. At the same time they want to deny the DoG at every turn.
    Some have said they used to hold to these truths,and yet the questioning of prayer as a means that God has ordained shows a lack of ever having an understanding of the DoG....position.:type:
     
  17. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    11,048
    Likes Received:
    321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Um...in another thread, I specifically identified myself as more of a classical arminian point of view, with a tendency toward amyraldism...so you're kinda incorrect about no one wants to identify with being an arminian....
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Don,
    You have stated what you believed very openly and that is a good thing.
    Everyone stands somewhere. We should obey and believe what we do, until we can come to a more complete understanding.
    The goal is not to be contentious...but rather to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord.I did not recall your post ,although I do remember something about the amyraldism view.
    In either case...I think it has become apparent that many resist that "label' because it is not biblically defensible.
    You have I believe a correct biblical attitude, in that although you do not share what many of us believe, you welcome taking a look and understanding why we believe as many of the professing church has throughout the years.
    One of the views is wrong......so the issue is very important.
    is this what you hold???
    taken from Calvinism/arminianism....WR.Downing
     
  19. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    Differences of belief are not only to be found among Calvinists, though, are they?

    Non-calvinists also differ about all sorts of things - they are not the homogeneous group your post suggests.

    And to say that each Calvinist believes differently is a gross overstatement.
     
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    23
    Yea, so you're basically an inconsistent Pelagian. You are worse than...[inflammatory language snipped]
     
    #100 Luke2427, Nov 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2011
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...