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IFB in darkness?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 16, 2011.

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  1. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    One of the Prof's at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., Dr. Wilmington, once told me..

    We can never separate love and truth:

    • Truth without love leads to legalism.

    • Love without truth leads to liberalism.

    How true that is.
     
  2. BobinKy

    BobinKy New Member

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    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    menageriekeeper...

    I hope you do not mind, but I attend a Freewill Baptist Church and I thought I would throw a couple of images on the screen.

    ...Bob
     
  3. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    But, you are discussing... :laugh:

    Self-identification is one thing. Dicussion in the larger sense is another. I'd fight against the fact that we are all called "religious" we are not (for the most part). We are a faith-filled people who have a relationship with the Living God of the universe. But, we're called "religious people" and have a "religion" in the greater discussion because that is the category in which we fit -- so we wear it and use it "for the sake of discussion."

    If it looks like a duck... :thumbsup:
     
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    If you list your Baptist distinctives: what makes us Baptist, you will find that the IFB churches are willing to fight for these distinctives far more than any of the other Baptists.

    For example, "sola scriptura," or that the Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice. In previous years, even in the SBC, there have been many questions raised about the inspiration of Scripture. The ABC is completely liberal today. Inspiration is a hot topic except among the IFB who all agree that Bible is the inspired word of God.

    Soul liberty. Historically it is the IFB movement that has fought for this principle with their blood. Certainly they weren't known as IFB in ages past, but they were the ones that would identify with the IFB today. We believe that others, including the J.W. have the right to believe in their faith and express it, though we may consider it heresy. It is along the lines of religious tolerance.
    However it includes another facet. Our doctrine is not smorgasbord. Each individual church has a statement of faith which all agree to, and the IFB's statement of faith tend to be much more comprehensive than other Baptists. Thus there is unity in the individual churches. There is still a degree of soul liberty for no two men agree on exactly the same things, but all in the church agree on the same statement of faith, the same constitution. That is not so among other churches when people are voted into membership.

    A regenerated and immersed membership. Do your Baptist churches insist on the prospective member being Baptized by immersion, before becoming a member? Not all do.

    Baptism and Lord's Supper are the only two ordinances of the local church. If these are the only two ordinances of the local church, are they practiced only when the local church gathers, or are you one of the many local churches that will serve communion at the bedside of one of your members in the hospital? How important is the Lord's Supper in your church? Is it just a five or ten minute add-on at the end of a service or is considerable time given to worship at this very important memorial of our Savior's death.

    Separation of church and state.
    Separation personally and ecclesiastically.
    --The above are rarely practiced by churches other than IFB churches.

    We contend for the faith as Jude commands us.
    We are independent. Our methods may be different.
    We are autonomous and therefore different.
    We cannot be lumped into one group.
    That which we have in common are the fundamentals of the faith, the Baptist distinctives, and an independence from all denominational affiliation. We are autonomous--completely.
     
  5. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Did it take you 37 years to become such a class act dripping with understanding and grace?
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    If a duck doesn't have a head, wings, feathers or duck DNA, is it still a duck? :smilewinkgrin:
     
  7. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    If it is a duck, wouldn't the DNA always be there?
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Not if the thing being called a duck is not really a duck! :cool:

    To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, "How many legs would a dog have if you called it a duck?" The answer, "Four, because just calling it a duck doesn't make it one."
     
  9. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    Fight... no kidding. :tear:

    Where in Scripture does it say that we are to fight for the right to be separatists?

    I'd prefer for the "Baptist distinctives" be that we are "people of the Book" and that we follow that Book more closely than any other people. THAT is why we exist, not to fight for our right to be individualistic.

    But, certain of the IFB (not a paintbrush!) can take the Word so far out of context to be as bad or worse than those who take liberties with it in the other, more liberal direction. This has been admitted, even by other IFB persons on this board just this week.

    Are you speaking of the priesthood of all believers? What is this "soul liberty" sounds rather liberal to me... Do you have chapter and verse (in context) for soul liberty? Seeing as how IFB are "sola scriptura" there should be a case made by good exegesis of the Text, not based in some heretical beliefs.

    Either you are truly independent or you are not... Which is it, or does the argument change based on who is making it?

    Of course... That is part and parcel of what it is that makes us Baptist -- but not because WE say it. Rather because that is what is in the Word.

    Our church practices the Lord's Supper in every service. It is definitely not "tacked on" to the end of the service. And, yes, we are Baptist. We do not run around with little kits as do some Protestants. But to suggest that "the church" (meaning any two or three members) cannot serve Communion to a shut in or person in the hospital would be a travesty. Excluding the ones who most need to be included in the actions of the congregation would violate multiple commands of our Lord, both OT and NT.

     
  10. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    But the question was, "If it is a duck..." not "If it is called a duck..."

    So, it must be a duck.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    The brother of Jesus reminded us and made an "appeal to you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints."

    The "faith" includes more than just the Gospel. It includes what the Word teaches . . about church doctrine, about church polity, about distinctives of the church, et al

    We are entrusted to do this. If we don't, it will only take one generation until there is no difference between the separatists and others. And back to Rome we will bow
     
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    All of the above words are used in Scripture, and all are used as commands.
     
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    And so can American Baptists, and Southern Baptists, and Landmark Baptists, and Pentecostals, and Methodists, and Catholics, and Lutherans, and.... So why are you picking on independent Baptists?

    Which could explain why people say muslims and Christians worship the same god, although muslims deny Christ...or that Lutherans and Baptists are the same, although Lutherans insist you must be baptised to be saved...and so on.
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The very first one:
    The Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice. Our faith and practice is different than theirs.

    The second one:
    The church must be composed of baptized regenerated believers. That one should make it obvious. Muslims are neither.

    I was presenting some of the Baptist distinctives--those distinctives which set Baptists apart from other religions.
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm starting to get confused. I think I'll just duck answering this one.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. nate

    nate New Member

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    I was born and raised until the age of 12 in Pickens South Carolina. (About 30 minutes north of Greenville) The majority of my family probably 70% belong to KJVO, IFB churches. On my mothers side of the family there are 11 missionaries or Pastors within the IFB. I must say my experiences with this group have been on the Legalistic side: women do not wear pants, no cosmetics or even ear piercing for women, no shorts for guys, no TV.

    That said I am not attacking them at all just stating some of their views that I believe might fall in the category of legalistic. I think some of my experiences may stem from the fact I'm speaking of experiences in Bob Jones back yard and the proverbial buckle of the Bible Belt as well...
     
  17. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    It does still exist (although the point is that it existed in 1881):

    http://www.growinghealthychurches.org/

    An example of Hamilton Square Baptist Church's early associations:

    San Francisco Call, Sunday, September 16, 1906, p. 22 "News of the Churches"

     
  18. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    ((((No shorts for men))))!?!?

    Goodness, I LIVE in shorts during the summer.


    That is extreme legalism. Almost hard core Muslim style legalism.
     
  19. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Do they believe that these items are required for salvation?
     
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    To be fair, BJU professors oppose KJVO teachings, and there is nothing in their campus rules about cosmetics or ear piercing. I'm not sure about the other things nowadays, but I doubt if they actively oppose them, though they have certain dress standards for on campus. (Women still wear pants in PE there, I believe.)
     
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