IFB Leaders On Expository Preaching

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Truth Seeker, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    1
    Jack Hyles 's "The Science of Calling a Pastor" Quote:

    "Choose someone who is not a Bible expositor. There is not one expository sermon in the Bible. All of them are topical. I am not fighting expository preaching, but that kind of preaching will destroy a great church. Do not be swayed by their suave teaching. The great soul-winning churches have been pastored by topical preaching. I am not talking about evangelistic church; I mean soul-winning church! If you want a soul-winning church, you must call a pastor who preaches topical sermons."

    "Many of our once great soul-winning churches fell prey to the popular notion of expository preaching. They decided that they wanted more Bible, but when they got it, it cost them their effective soul winning."

    John R. Rice said, "Expository preaching, as it is done in most Bible-believing pulpits, does not grow soul-winning churches" (Why Our Churches Do Not Win Souls, Sword of the Lord, 1966, p. 74).

    So both Hyles and Rice believed that expository preaching does not grow soul winning churches. I disagree Romans 10:17 says "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

    The preaching of God's Word is instrumental in a person's salvation. What do you think? Is expository preaching a danger to our churches? Hmmmm.
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,621
    Likes Received:
    310
    The men quoted only represent a fraction of IFBdom. And their fraction is shrinking as time passes. I recommend you look up John Vaughn, David Innes of San Francisco, and Joel,Tetreau on Sermon Audio.
     
  3. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    1
    Are they 5 point Calvinists or Arminians?
     
  4. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,248
    Likes Received:
    184
    Knowing both of the men mentioned in the OP, I will make these comments.

    Jack Hyles was a cult leader. He thrived on power and he is not the kind of preacher or the kind of preaching to emulate. There are still those who are blind to the teaching and character of that man.

    John R. Rice was a great leader and (imo) a great scholar and theologian of balance and insight. His writing is continually being an influence across the theological spectrum even after all the time from his passing.

    He and I didn't agree on some areas, but that isn't (or wasn't) unusual. Few agree with me about everything. He was a man of prayer. In fact, I have never met anyone to compare him to in that area. He had great concern for any believer who wanted to grow in wisdom in the things of God, yet was not one to spend great lengths with one who was merely trying to bask in his fame. John R. Rice had contacts and the respect of his peers in almost every area of the Baptist influence not only among the IFB world.

    I will make a comment as to the general thinking of the OP.

    There are those that would scorn expository preaching, and contend that it doesn't lead to "soul winning." However, what type of "soul winning" is being spoken of by those folks?

    If it is "pray this prayer after me" to get to heaven when you die types, then such a comment holds very little weight.

    "Growing" a "great church" isn't the goal of the witness. The believing witness seeks to proclaim the Gospel because they cannot contain the wonder and hide it from others.

    There MUST be a balance of BOTH topical and expository teaching / preaching in an assembly.

    Expository preaching / teaching IS found in the Scriptures.

    It is exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ did in Luke 24:27:
    Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.​
    Some will respond that that is "topical" because He didn't go verse by verse.

    Actually, He did - beginning with Moses.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    It is God who gives the increase, not man, not sermon styles. I prefer exposition to 'text and tantrum' Hyle's type sermons. Exposition is rightly handling the Word and going through a book in this manner gives the preacher direction and a long track to stay on. There is also not a thing wrong with a good topical sermon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    1
    That's the thing that I don't understand. why John R Rice endorse Jack Hyles? Also, even though Rice preached repentance he still used the altar calls and sinner's prayer. It appears to me that Rice top priority was revivalism.
     
  7. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,621
    Likes Received:
    310
    Much of Hyles' cultic thought and practices became more evident after the Dr. Rice's homegoing.
     
  8. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,248
    Likes Received:
    184
    Dr. Rice was first an evangelist - he had the heart and ministry focus as an evangelist.

    He was schooled at Baylor university, (back when Baylor was actually more strict with students than any fundamental school ever was) and he was the type of man who longed for souls to be redeemed.

    He viewed the "sinner's prayer" as not a way to gather numbers, but as a tool to allow the believer to point to a specific time and place as the point of redemption. Besides, there is (with the appropriate use) nothing basically wrong with the "sinner's prayer."

    It wasn't until many years after John R. Rice's death that Jack Hyles was exposed as the fraudulent person he turned out to be. Imo, had John R. Rice been much younger and made aware of the real character of Hyles, he would have not only rebuked him to his face, but published such a rebuke that the assemblies would know the truth.

    Unlike Hyles, Dr. Rice was a man of Godly character.
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,207
    Likes Received:
    192
    You have misrepresented John R. Rice's position. In the first place, you left out the first part of the sentence, which said, "At the risk of being misunderstood...." So you have done exactly that, misunderstood. Note that even in your quote he said, "as it is done in most...," meaning that it can be done rightly.

    He continues after your quote saying, "I know that the pastorate is required to be 'apt to teach' (1 Tim. 3:2), and that God's people ought to be taught the Word of God. But unfortunately most expository preaching is more or less a routine matter, is not aimed at particular objects" (ibid). Notice his use of the word "most" instead of all. His point was that even expository preaching ought to have a goal of changing lives and winning souls. I'm pretty sure all homiletics texts would agree on this. Just teaching the Bible without applying it is deadening.

    One of John R. Rice's close friends was W. A. Criswell, who preached through the Bible and built a great church, seeing many souls saved. I have no doubt that John R. Rice approved of that kind of expository preaching.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,207
    Likes Received:
    192
    Neither was a Calvinist, and both would have also rejected the label of "Arminian."
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,207
    Likes Received:
    192
    Yes, John R. Rice used the altar call, though it was invented by Calvinists (not Finney as is usually thought). H. Leon McBeth writes, "The separates thus devised a method of encouraging on-the-spot religious decisions, to the singing of a hymn, well before the revivals of Charles G. Finney, who is often credited with inventing the invitation" (The Baptist Heritage, p. 231).

    As for "the sinners prayer," I don't know where you got the idea that John R. Rice used the sinner's prayer, but he did not. His normal method of dealing with a lost person was, after presenting the Gospel, to pray for them and then, with head still bowed, ask them to take his hand if they were now believing in Christ. He would then lead them to pray a prayer of thanksgiving for salvation. This can be clearly seen in his 1955 film, "Bringing in the Sheaves."

    About revivalism, John R. Rice's top priority was the saving of souls. What's wrong with that? He was a great revivalist and I thank God for his revivalism.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    That statement just cannot pass without a challenge. He might be commended for many things --but certainly not the above. It's just absurd. as Llloyd Streeter has said, he "was a theological train wreck."
    Really? Rather, it remains in narrow confines.
     
  13. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm not attacking John R Rice, he was a big influence on me. I'm simply pointing out some areas of disagreements with him. Wasn't John R Rice involved in some debate with Lewis Sperry Chafer and John Walvoord of Dallas Theological Seminary over the methods of evangelism?
     
  14. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    1
    I believe John r Rice was more balanced than many IFB's today. I wonder why the Sword of the Lord stopped printing the Rice Reference Bible? Maybe they don't agree with some of the notes in that reference bible?
     
  15. heisrisen

    heisrisen
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    41
    Yes well Jack Hyles isn't a great person to go to in regards to anything biblical. He was a heretic and adulterer.
     
  16. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    Agreed!
     
  17. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,135
    Likes Received:
    364
    Truth Seeker - John in Japan is John Rice's grandson. I'm sure he can answer some of your questions. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    And he will be totally unbiased. ;-)
     
  19. McCree79

    McCree79
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    33
    Was adultery ever proven or was he just accused?

    Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
     
  20. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,621
    Likes Received:
    310
    He has proved to be more or less over the years. This isn;t th efirst John R. Rice thread he has participated in. Unless, your definition of "unbiased" requires the observer to take a negative view of the late Mr. Rice
     

Share This Page

Loading...