IFB vs SBC...The Issue of Biblical "Separation"and why they differ!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Gregory Perry Sr., Feb 6, 2005.

  1. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
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    :rolleyes: OK gang...I want to start a GOOD debate on this topic for the purpose of clarification AND edification.I come from an IFB background but now attend an SBC church.Long story how I got from there to here but suffice it to say that I am where I believe the Lord led me at this time in my life.That said,I have noticed rather starkly that the difference in some "practiced"standards is significant.The seperation issue has always been important to me as I see it as a matter of purity.My pastor and I have discussed this several times and I'm sure we'll be talking some more.I'd just like to get some ideas from everybody on what IS SCRIPTURAL Biblical separation....how far should we go with it.....and why do the IFB's and SBC"ers seem to differ so much on this issue.Remember to play nice people. [​IMG]

    Let the games begin....Greg Sr. [​IMG]
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
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    What is the "separation" issue?
     
  3. robycop3

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    If you're referring to separation from sinners...Jesus said the doctor goes to the sick and not the well. We must often go to the sinner and witness; they don't come to us that often.

    As for being 'yoked' with a sinner...when YOU were saved, it didn't automatically save your spouse, family, co-workers, or anyone else with whom you associate. While Paul makes it clear about what to do if your spouse is unsaved, he doesn't mention other familial relationships, business partners, etc.

    This is just my personal view, and is not set in stone. However, I believe it's within the bounds of the overview of Scripture:

    If you're saved, and partnered in business with one who's not saved, you need not end that partnership...but be sure to set a shining example of Christian living for him/her to see, to NOT engage in any sinful enterprise your partner may undertake, and if you're seeking a new partner, make sure it's a CHRISTIAN. Yes, I think it's wrong that if you're saved, to enter into ANY kind of relationship with any unsaved, except, of course, as a witness to seek to lead the lost to Christ.

    But again...If you've entered into a relationship/partnership with a lost person(s) while you yourself was lost, it's on a case-by-case basis upon whether to end your association or not. Obviously, if your and your partner's business was porn, alcohol, etc. you should get out...but if you and a partner ran a legit business such as a car dealership, I refer to the 2nd paragraph above.
     
  4. Plain Old Bill

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    What kind of separation are you talking about? We are to be in the world but not of the world.
     
  5. donnA

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    I think not enough info.
     
  6. PastorSBC1303

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    I think we are pretty much in agreement here, not enough info to make an educated response.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    Most likely, the issues are two fold: personal separation from the world and ecclesiastical separation from false teachers and disobedient brothers.

    Personal separation from teh world involves one's personal life, such as whether or not one goes to movies, drinks, listens to a particular kind of music, dresses a certain way, participates in certain entertainment options, etc. Ecclesiastical separation involves a church's involvement with those who deny the clear teaching of Scripture or their involvement with brothers who are disobedient to the clear teachings of Scripture.

    There are a lot of reasons they differ. As a whole, independents are more strict in both categories placing emphasis on the holiness of God. As a whole, the SBC churches are a little looser, placing more emphasis on the love of God. Of course, those are generalities for which everyone can now shoot me ...
     
  8. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Well,Pastor Larry beat me to it and yes I guess I should have been a little more specific in the OP.I was talking primarily about the issue of ecclesiastical separation but personal separation does have a place in this discussion as well.Why is there such a big difference between SBC and IFB churches as to this issue?As I said,I currently attend an SBC church and my Pastor is a strong preacher of the Word but I know he doesn't see it the same as an IFB would.I've just always had a problem when people who profess to love the Lord and the Book seem to come to such different conclusions about some things.

    Greg Sr.
     
  9. sammy19621

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    THE BIBLE TELLS US TO BE SEPARATED FROM THE WORLD "COME OUT FROM AMOUNG THEM AND BE YE SEPERATE". THE IFB HOLDS A MORE CONSERVATIVE VIEW IN MUSIC AND WHICH BIBLE THEY USE. THE IFB USUALLY USES STRICTLY THE KING JAMES 1611 AND THE SBC USES ANY NUMBER OF VERSIONS. ON MISSIONS GIVING, THE SBC GIVES TO A CONVENTION AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THE MONEY GOES OR HOW MUCH GETS TO THE MISSIONARY. THEY ALSO DO NOT GET TO SELECT THEIR MISSIONARIES TO SUPPORT. EACH IFB CHURCH SELECTS THEIR OWN MISSIONARIES AND USUALLY SENDS 100% OF THE DESIGNATED OFFERINGS TO THE MISSIONARY. THE SB CONVENTION HAS SOME CONTROL OVER THE LOCAL CHURCH. THE IFB IS INDEPENDANTLY CONTROLLED BY THE MEMBERS.
     
  10. Baptist_Pastor/Theologian

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    Gregory,

    I am a pastor of an SBC church. In the process of earning a MDiv and ThM at SEBTS I was throughly exposed to Biblical instruction and sound doctrine. I actually wrote my ThM Thesis on Balthasar Hubmaier, a 16th Century Anabaptist, who said that if there was no church discipline there was no true church. Few SBC churches practice church discipline and therefore the church suffers. In truth most pastors are more worried about offending important people than protecting the family of God. I can only tell you this, as a pastor I have a firm commitment to Scripture and that includes Matt. 18 as well as Titus 1. In a sermon I preached out of Titus 1 entitled "The Danger of False Prophets" I expound that we must 1) Identify 2)Silence 3) Stop 4) Confront and 5) Expose False Prophets. Tell your pastor to preach the Word and do not let anyone tell you otherwise than what is found in the clear meaning of Scripture.

    Shalom,

    Pastor Bill
     
  11. Baptist_Pastor/Theologian

    Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
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    Sammy,

    I am not entirely sure where you got your information from but it is sadly unrepresentative of the true state of affairs within the SBC.

    1) To say that no one knows where the money goes is a obvious exaggeration. There are well defined agreements between the SBC and the entities which give money to its various missions agencies. As a rule the Associations usually get 10% of the budget of a church. The SBC is mostly funded through the Cooperative Program which is directed through the State Convention. In most cases the SBC and the State split the proceeds 50/50. As would be expected there are a variety of arrangements but there is a clear trail that leads to the mission field. The SBC sends out more career missionaries than any other Evangelical Missions body with in excess of 5000 missionaries worldwide.

    2)You state, "THEY ALSO DO NOT GET TO SELECT THEIR MISSIONARIES TO SUPPORT." For your information SBC churches are free to give to anyone they choose and in many cases the SBC will assist a local church in funding a missionary individually. I have a close personal friend in Chicago planting a church who is supported by several congregations in addition to receiving funding from both the State Convention and the SBC.

    3) You suggest, "EACH IFB CHURCH SELECTS THEIR OWN MISSIONARIES AND USUALLY SENDS 100% OF THE DESIGNATED OFFERINGS TO THE MISSIONARY." While this maybe true this does not tell the whole story. In order for a IFB missionary to sustain support they must spend a considerable amount of time back in the US raising their support. As such many missionaries have to come back every year of once every couple of years to tour the churches that fund them in order to sustain their commitment. As result they are not on the field 100% of the time. As a matter of fact many are not on the field 75% of the time. Worse yet some must spend 50% of their time raising funding. With the SBC there is a very low administrative % that comes out of the Cooperative Program, which also funds SBC Seminaries, 6 total. Twice a year the SBC take up offerings at Christmas and Easter that 100% go directly to missionaries in the NAMB and IMB. Also, all 5000+ career missionaries for the SBC spend 100% of the time in the mission field. Can you imagine having a pastor who was not in your church 50% of the time? Neither can I accept forcing a missionary to spend near that percentage of his time raising his own funding back in the US.

    4) Again you are misinformed with this next statement, "THE SB CONVENTION HAS SOME CONTROL OVER THE LOCAL CHURCH." I refer you to the SBC Baptist Faith & Message 2000 on two different sections:

    Secondly,

    I am sure you meant well however in this case as you can see you have grossly misrepresented the nature of SBC missions giving as well as Baptist polity with the SBC.

    Shalom,

    Pastor Bill
     
  12. donnA

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    1.Please stop yelling. All caps is always yelling.

    2.Yes, we know exactly where our money goes. Maybe you don't, but then you aren't SBC, you don't have a reason too. I never worry about what my neighbor does with his money.

    3.The SBC does not control or church, they have no control at all of our local church.

    4. We are controled by our members. No one outside out congregation tells us what we have to do, we vote and do what we thik God would ahve us to do.

    5. We aren't legalistic.

    6. We support missionaries we send out. Last year we sent people to Mexico twise, Poland, Gutatamla twice. We went and started a mission way into Mexico(don't know the name of the town) who had never had Jesus preached there before, this year we are building a church there, and have deleivered a truck to a near by mission to go into the mountains where no one has been becasue of lack of access. The ploand trips are VBS trips and focus on children and families, this year our missionaries are building a play ground. This village had not had missionaries in it before till ours went with a team of local SBC churches. We sent people to Guatamala twice, on ical missions, once a dentist wen tto repair teeth,a nd the next one was vet who treated the villages animals and vacinated them, so the villagers could contoinue to support themselves with the livestock.

    So apparently you know a lot less about us then you think you do.
     
  13. donnA

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    Baptist-Pastor, you'll be glad to know our SBC church pratices discipline.

    I have heard this , I think it was from someone from and IFB chrch who said it.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    Others have corrected you on the SBC issues; I will do so on this issue. There is no IFB church that I know of that uses the King James 1611. All who use the KJV use a much later revision of the KJV, after much editing. It is usually a 1769 revision. Part of the problem is that many IFB pastors are not being straight with their people about this. It might be because they don't know. It might by that they know better and do it anway. In any case, there are very few if any churches who use the King James 1611.

    Many IFB churches uses a modern version, and with good reason ... they are speaking a modern language.
     
  15. donnA

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    The language of the KJV 1611 is not even a language spoken in America, it is a foreign English (I almost said a foriegn version of our English language, but after a little thought, we could be the foreigh version of their English language, lol), just as the English spoken in Australia is differnt from the Brittish and US versions of the same language. There are many words in the older vesions no longer in use in our country, and prehaps not even in the original country the English is from.
    I'd rather read the bible with understanding.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    As an IFB missionary (see above) I have been in a couple of hundred IFB churches and have never been in one that used the KJV1611. Can't see how that is a valid issue for separation.

    2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and bee yee separate, saieth the Lord, and touch not the vncleane thing, and I will receiue you,
     
  17. donnA

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    Well cool, I wondered why you were in Erie, and are American(you are right?).
     
  18. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    [​IMG] After all this time ;) - have a look at my profile [​IMG] .
     
  19. donnA

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    LOL, yah, but that would be so obvious. LOL
     
  20. donnA

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    yep, there it is, missionary pastor, in Erie. Well, who would have thought. LOL
     

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