II Thessalonians 2:13-14

Not to jump in since Ken can answer for himself, but to jump in anyway ... YOu have confused salvation with being regenerated. Salvation is the whole of the redemptive process in the life of the individual. It is not one simple act. It includes election, effectual call, repentance and faith (conversion), regeneration, justification, etc. Most calvinists do believe that man must repent and believe to be saved. A very few, such as the primitive baptists, do not. We argue with them about that as well ... We do believe that a man is divinely enabled by God to repent and believe (Acts 11:15; 2 Thess 2:13; Phl 1:29; Rom 2:4, etc.) and we believe that all of God's elect will certainly do this.

 

Where?? What verses?? I haven't separated salvation and regeneration. Salvation is used of the whole process; regeneration is one part of that process.

No, being saved is not identical with regeneration. Salvation is the whole of which regeneration is a part.

You are wrong. Had they not repented and believed, they would have most certainly gone to hell. And salvation is not just about hell. It is about being saved from sins.

These distinctions are technical theological distinctions which are often brushed over in general conversation. However, we cannot overlook them. Salvation is the same as regeneration only in the same sense that justification is the same or that election is the same or that belief is the same or that repentance is the same. All of these things are distinguished from each other in Scripture and so we try to relate them in the way that Scripture does.

 

OK. Which is it? Can man do nothing to save himself or must we believe (an act of free will)?

Interesting that you capitalized "Man"...

 

Well done, Pastor Larry. If this was a football game the play-by-play announcer would be saying, "Touchdown Calvinists!"

We tend to think of the salvation process as being linear. But it is probably better thought of as being circular. When the circle is completed, salvation is then completed.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

[ October 14, 2002, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

It's amazing how people will put forth the effort to learn the vocabulary used in their profession or their hobby, but when it comes to studying Biblical theology they don't expend the effort.

Studious homework is necessary to increase one's knowledge and understanding of the Bible.

"People who want milk should not seat themselves on a stool in the middle of a field in hope that a cow will back up to them." - Elbert Hubbard

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Without the power of Christ, man is hopelessly lost and cannot be saved. Man can do nothing with the Holy Spirit's drawing.

Therefore, both are correct. Man can do nothing to save himself. We must believe by an act of free will.

 

Mark Osgatharp
You are doing an excellant job of wittnessing to our brothers. I shall become a prayer warrior for your posts. They are not in vain, God will use them in his good time.

May God Bless.

 

Mark,

What? Repent and become a Landmarkist? No thanks.

Now, the offer is always open for you to join us Spurgeonites.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

[ October 15, 2002, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

This is interesting coming from someone who has just labored to deny the plain statement of 2 Thess 2:13-14 ...

These distinctions are ones that Scripture makes. We have not developed them. We are simply trying to reconcile them.

[ October 15, 2002, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]