IJohn 1:9 and 3:9???

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by I Am Blessed 24, Aug 31, 2004.

  1. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
    IJohn 1:9

    "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
    1John 3:9

    I know there are no contradictions in God's Word, but could someone explain why these verses seem to be at odds with each other?

    Thanks,
    §ue
     
  2. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    I think I John 3:9 speaks of continued, willful sin. The passage speaks of seeing evidence of being born again, and that those who have truly been regenerated will not willfully continue to sin, as though accepting Christ made no difference in their lives.
     
  3. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Thanks Debby:

    The words he cannot sin are throwing me.
     
  4. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
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    I believe this talks about the "seed" that God puts within us. This "new man" cannot sin, it is the old nature where we have our trouble.
     
  5. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Ahhh! The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak type of thing?
     
  6. Bob Rogers

    Bob Rogers
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    The 2nd birth is spiritual, rather than physical. Throughout our earthly lives, we battle the flesh. In Gal. 2:20, Paul speaks of being crucified with Christ. The flesh is corruption and the spirit is incorruption.

    "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we might not serve sin." - Romans 6:6 (KJV)

    Bob
     
  7. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    So the first verse refers to the 'old man' - flesh and the second verse refers to the 'new man' - spirit?
     
  8. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
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    I believe this talks about the "seed" that God puts within us. This "new man" cannot sin, it is the old nature where we have our trouble. </font>[/QUOTE]Terry,

    As is usually the case, I could'nt agree with you more.

    I would just add Paul's own words on this subject:

    Romans 7:14-20
    This whole business that is taught by some, on both sides of the aisle, that a true Christian cannot willfully continue to sin, is utterly false compared first with Paul's own words, and secondly with real life.

    Everytime we sin it is willful. And we are told of sins that easily beset us. The New Testament paints a picture for us, it gives us the goal, and that is a Christ like life.

    We all struggle to greater and lesser degrees to meet that goal as we depend on the Lord for his help.

    The goal however, is not yet the reality, and will not be until we die.

    IFBReformer
     
  9. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    The new man is something we are told to 'put on' in Ephesians.

    Ephesians 4
    21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
    22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
    24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    This is a command to believers, which implies conversley that it is possible for a Christian to not put on the new man, and walk in the old man. If we are walking in the new man, we are not sinning. If we are sinning, we are walking in the old man. The old man of course was not born of God.

    The idea that a true Christian can not sin is obviously false. One only needs to look at the Corinthians for an example of what Paul called 'carnal' Christians. Some say that this means a true Christian will not continue in sin... well thats not what it says. As you pointed out it says "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

    So, to be 'born of God', one must be walking in the new man and not sinning. Now the question is, what does it mean to a Christian who is not walking in the new man, but is committing sin?
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Surely, even as born again Christians, we still have feet of clay and commit SOME type of sin everyday - even if it is a sin of omission and not commission...
     
  11. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    Well, thats a question for sure. The Bible seems to imply that we should be able to obey Christ because His blood not only paid the eternal price for our sins, but freed us from the power of sin. Now there is wilful sin and there is unwilful sin. Wilful sin is something we should not be doing (obviously [​IMG] )

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    If we do sin wilfully, the Lord I believe is faithful and just to forgive us, if we confess our sins... but there is no guarantee that the Lord will not turn us over to a reprobate mind, and we will just stop confessing our sin and slide on down the slippery slope.

    Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

    As for sins we are unaware of, the Lord will deal with those however He decides to I guess. If we are diligently seeking Him and desiring to know His commandments and obey them, He reveals them to us. Through His word, and by the Holy Spirit, He constantly refines us, prunes us and conforms us into the image of Christ. But we must be willing to follow Him where he leads. He has little use for peple who are not willing to go all the way for His Kingdom. Look at the rich young ruler:

    Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
    Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
    Luk 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
    Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
    Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
    Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

    Christ illustrates how riches can be a snare to us. Christ called this man to a full time ministry, to follow Him, but because of his riches he turned back. We must be willing to do whatever God calls us to do, give up whatever God calls us to give up.

    Same for sins of omission I suppose. If we know were supposed to be doing it, it's wilfull. If we didn't know, but God revealed it to us, we must submit to it and do it. Trust and obey [​IMG]

    We are never to be resting on our laurels, patting ourselves on the back and congratulating ourselves for having won the Kingdom.

    Phi 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
    Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    SO, long answer to a short question... yeah, we will still sin, but we shouldn't get lazy in trying to get sin out of our lives. We should be renewing our minds daily with the Word, and seeking the reward that our Lord has set before us. And, of course, confessing our sins.

    Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
     
  12. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    God called David, "a man after my own heart", but David still sinned.

    "And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will."
    Acts 13:22

    I believe we are to strive for perfection, but sadly, as Paul pointed out, we will not attain that goal until we are with Him in Glory. The flesh will ALWAYS war against the spirit...

    "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."
    Romans 7:15

    [​IMG] §ue
     

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