Ilinois Student Gets Detention for Hugging

Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by KenH, Nov 7, 2007.

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  1. KenH

    KenH
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    This is one of the silliest punishments I have ever heard of.


    Ill. student gets detention for hugging
    Tue Nov 6, 5:56 PM ET

    MASCOUTAH, Ill. - Two hugs equals two days of detention for 13-year-old Megan Coulter. The eighth-grader was punished for violating a school policy banning public displays of affection when she hugged two friends Friday.

    "I feel it is crazy," said Megan, who was to serve her second detention Tuesday after classes at Mascoutah Middle School.

    "I was just giving them a hug goodbye for the weekend," she said.

    Megan's mother, Melissa Coulter, said the embraces weren't even real hugs — just an arm around the shoulder and slight squeeze.

    "It's hilarious to the point of ridicule," Coulter said. "I'm still dumbfounded that she's having to do this."

    - rest at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_fe_st/odd_detention_for_hugging_2
     
  2. youngmom4

    youngmom4
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    Why didn't the parents fight this? I would have fought it, and I would have refused to allow my child to serve the detention. It would not be the first time I have opposed a punishment that I felt was unjust. This is just ridiculous! :BangHead:
     
  3. johnjudge

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    I agree,the parents should have stood up for their kid, not find it "hilarious to the point of ridicule,". I mean it is all right to tech kids that the homo lifestyle is all right, but a hug is not? Unreal....
     
  4. Joshua Rhodes

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    Next, greeting with a holy kiss will be wrong!!

    I agree... parents AND child should have fought it.
     
  5. bobbyd

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    The sad thing is this same school probably sees no problems with handing out birth control pills or condoms.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    The child knew what was wrong, and the parents most adamantly should not defend it. School is not the place for any kind of PDA. It is a place of learning. This is silly that it even makes the news.

    When parents take up for kids that have broken a rule, they ultimately do a disservice to the child and teach them that they will be allowed to get away with stuff.

    The story I read said that the school policy was known, and that the child knowingly violated it.

    You may think it's silly, but it's not up to you or the child to make the rules of the school.

    As a parent, my child would not only have been suspended from school, but would have been grounded at home. Rebellion against rules is intolerable.
     
  7. Ivon Denosovich

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    Or, it's not up to the state to forcibly tax parents for services they don't want, don't agree with, and pass it off as a "social contract" as if one party were capable of violating rules they never agreed to. Until education is privatized I say hug away. The only moral issue here is that of violating the natural rights of parents to be parents.

    Unless you agree with the schools' rights to teach your children about homosexuality and abortion (against your will), I'd say you too believe parental rights hold the trump card.
     
    #7 Ivon Denosovich, Nov 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2007
  8. KenH

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    We discussing a hug here, a squeeze, Pastor Larry, not a French kiss. :BangHead:


    The ultimate issue is:

    Are children the responsibility of the parents or are children wards of the state?

    I think that they are the former.
     
  9. s8147817430

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    What a silly response.
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    When you go to the school, you agree to the rules, whether those rules are about showing up on time for class, talking out during class, drinking pop in class, or hugging other students on school property.

    When you run the school, make that rule. But you don't run the school, according to the article, and the adminstration has not only the right but the responsibility to make and enforce such rules as they believe are necessary to provide a safe and able place for education to take place.

    That is not in this topic. Perhaps you have confused it with another. The parents are perfectly free to be parents, but parents can't authorize children to break rules. If you don't like the rules, then switch schools.

    Yes they do. So pull the child out. But don't undermine the authority.

    I can't help but think you didn't actually think about this, Ivon. Your post indicates that.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    No kidding, Ken. I can read. Banging your head against a wall is something you do far too often and it shows in responses like this. You are arguing against something I didn't say. The school has the authority and responsibility to make such rules as they believe necessary for the safe and effective education of children.

    First, that's not hte ultimate issue. The ultimate issue here is who has the authority to make rules in an institution. Second, a parent has the authority to take their children out of a school if they don't like the rules.

    It is amazing how many of you guys don't seem to even think the issues. You just spout the normal liberal line for some reason.

    Do you believe a school has the right to tell a child that they can't talk on a cell phone in class? Eat a pizza? Listen to their Ipod? LIsten to their Ipod on speakers rather than headphones? My guess is you believe that a school can say that ... and you are correct.

    So you are inconsistent. If you disagree, then you probably don't understand much about education.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Thanks for contributing something substantive. At least Ken and Ivon had the guts to put out an actual idea, misguided as it was. You didn't even attempt to interact with the issues at hand.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH
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    Wow! You and I disagree, Pastor Larry. Who would've thunk it. I'm not sure if you and I would agree that the sun is hot. :laugh:
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    I am not even sure the sun exists so we might disagree on whether it is hot. :D

    Seriously though, I asked a number of questions designed to see if you actually stand by your argument or not. I would be interested in a reply to them.

    I find it unimaginable that you actually think a school does not have the authority to make rules that they think help to provide the best possible environment for safety and learning. But that's what you seem to be saying ... that any rules violate the parental right and authority.

    Perhaps you overstated your case. I am not sure.

    Quite frankly, were I a school administrator, aside from having to be on constant suicide watch I would have an "absolutely no PDA" policy on school grounds or at school functions. It serves no educational or meaningful social purpose in the development of children and teens. (And this coming from a man who regularly hugs other men.) But I see no reason for it at school.

    I would also have, among other things, a no cell phone policy. If it is seen, it gets confiscated. Parents can pick it up after the suspension is served. I was in a doctoral class this week where a cell phone rang and the guy actually answered it before leaving the room. I was schocked.

    On a side note, I am always amazed by those who complain that the educational system isn't working and then complain about those who are tryign to do something about it.

    Does PDA serve an educational function? Does it create an environment that fosters better learning and critical thinking skills? The answer seems like it has to be no.

    I would be interested in reading about the educational benefits of PDA on school grounds and during school functions.

    Admittedly, I am radical about this, but that because I believe in education, and think it ought to be better.
     
  15. rbell

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    Total disagreement w/Larry.

    Not that it matters much, but this is one of "my schools." I have kids that go here. This particular kid, I think, goes to a sister Baptist church in Prattville.

    My problem is that school administrators are totally incapable of making judgements. It's the same realm as the "zero tolerance" stuff that happens all the time, where a student brings a GI Joe and is charged with "bringing a weapon to school."

    Another student gets it too: http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071109/PROGRESS/711090367/1040

    The principal could have used his brain in this issue. But it's against Alabama Education Association rules to think, if you're a teacher or administrator. One of my kids actually saw the "offending" hug. They told me it was nothing. It was a brief "A-frame" hug, and that the other kid had tears in his eyes.

    Leaders should exercise wisdom in making judgements. Our school systems are against the exercising of judgement.
     
  16. KenH

    KenH
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    I agree that schools ahve the authority to make rules. I think this particular rule is asinine. As rbell has written in the post above this one, as we have heard in various news stories, schools are enforcing really, really stupid rules - even over merely drawing a picture of a gun. There is simply a lack of common sense and good judgment exhibited by some of the folks running schools nowadays.

    Considering all of the mayhem I drew when I was in school with fighter jets, bombers, etc., I am not sure how long I would last in a classroom today. :)
     
  17. Pastor Larry

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    They are not totally incapable but there are several contributing factors.

    1) They are products of the system where critical thinking isn't taught. We see it all the time here. Consider our friend Ken, who acknowledges that a school has the authority to make a rule without infringing on parental rights, but then claims that when a school makes a rule and enforces it, it is an infringement. That's just a lack of critical thinking about the issues.

    2) They are put in bad places by parents who insist that the school do everything it does to satisfy their particular child. Parents (who have little respect for rules) pass that down to the children, and the cycle continues. The parents exercise no judgment in training their children, and then get upset when the school makes and enforces a rule it doesn't like. But if some unwanted guy had walked up and hugged this girl, the parents would have complained that the school was not being careful enough in controlling it. So in the end, you have to draw the line. There is absolutley not reason for teenagers to participate in physical affection. It is biblically inappropriate and unwise. ANd particularly in the educational setting it serves no educational purpose.

    So I am not sure it is the adminstrator's here with no common sense. It is perhaps the students and parents who have confused what a school is to be fore.

    If you really think this is the same thing, it is a desmontration of a lack of critical thinking. A rule about hugging violated by someone hugging and a rule about weapons violated by drawing a picture are so totally dissimilar that they do not belong in the same conversation.

    Come on ... you talk about exercising common sense and then say something like this???

    They are not against the exercise of judgment. They just exercised judgment that you didn't like.

    The problem with "exercising judgment" in the context of a school with hundreds of students is the charge of unfairness. When one student is suspended and another is not for the same infraction because "we exercised judgment" you will have created a great disgust by parents and distrust by students.

    The larger the group, the more consistent you have to be about enforcing rules. That's simply the way it works.
     
  18. s8147817430

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    It wasn't worth the time.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    Can't you see that these are two different issues? You may think the rule is asinine. That's fine. But it is a rule and if you don't enforce it there is no reason to have it.

    But earlier you said that your objection was that it was taking away parental authority in education. You said, ' Are children the responsibility of the parents or are children wards of the state?" But the truth is that that isn't the issue. Children are not wards of the state and making rules in school is not making them such. Schools and institutions have rules to help carry out their purposes.

    You may think the rule is dumb. Fine. Become a school board member and change it.

    But in the meantime, tell us why some rules are okay and others aren't. And tell us how PDA helps create an effective learning environment. So far, you are dodging the issues and talking about your personal preferences.

    And there is a lack of common sense and good judgment by some of the folks responding to how schools are being run. And the article illustrates that well.
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    Then you should have stayed out of it.

    Perhaps you don't have an argument, which is why you didn't offer one. So I challenge you, as I have Ken, tell us how PDA helps to create an effective learning environment. Tell us why a school doesn't have the authority to make rules that it believes will help to carry out its mission.
     
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