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Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Salty, Jun 18, 2011.
Is the issue of immigrants moral or legal?
All law is moral. It is based upon the moral compass of those making the laws. A law tells you about the morals of those who make them. Some laws are immoral because they violate Biblical standards, some are moral.
Oh thank you, I so needed the laugh today!!!
So you disagree that all law is moral? SO, what is the basis of law? This is a great question because I am fascinated as to what you will say as Christians have traditionally made my statement that law has her basis in morality.
Thus, My presupposition is that all law is based in a moral system (right or wrong), what is your viewpoint?
It has both elements. Not exactly sure what you are asking.
Please clarify. Are you saying that law merely has a moral basis or that each individual law is moral in nature? IOW, is a 55mph vs 65mph more moral than the other?
I disagree. The law is legal. Whether or not the law is moral is based upon ones beliefs. I could probably name 100 Christians I know personally who believe abortion is a strictly legal issue and have heard them say that morals can not be legislated. I could name 100 more who would tell you it's strictly a moral issue and as such there should be a law banning it. Which, in my limited legal mind says to me they're still trying to make it a legal issue on top of a moral one.
OBEDIENCE to the law is moral. For instance, if you drive over the legal speed limit and you aren't caught by an office of the law it is a moral issue. God says we should obey the laws of the land, but by speeding you've broken the law and sinned. If the officer catches you it becomes a legal issue as well because you're not only going to have to ask God for forgiveness but pay a hefty speeding fine. Whether or not you repent of that sin is another issue. Repenting would mean you cease from ever speeding again.
The church can not, and should not, decide issues such as immigration. IMHO
Legal in that we are a nation of laws and Romans 13 tells us how we should address the laws of man; moral in that we have a moral obligation to also reach these people with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Its a moral issue for those breaking the law.
Its a legal issue for the nation as we seek to decide how we wish to proceed.
The church needs to stay out of it, except to preach that we are to be obedient to the laws for reasons of scripture. No need for the church to get into the issue of how many/too many immigrants, etc.
Both. It is moral to help someone in need, but we need laws to help control people coming in under false pretenses in order to keep our country secure. One of the reasons asylum status exists for illegals...
We had about 30 Americans enter into Canada to avoid the draft to Viet Nam, in my area alone. They eventually became citizens, or returned to the USA when the law was changed so they wouldn't be charged.
They were thankful that Canada was receptive.
Laws are made by the country's government has nothing to due with religion.
Illegal immigrants are trying to cheat the systems in place, and by doing so cause complications for legitimate migrants....filling up quotas etc.
Illegal immigration is no doubt here to stay as the animals who profit from this trade confuse and frighten those who end up thinking that the only way out is to pay exorbitant fees for an uncertain future...whether by piracy, drowning,stranding or imprisonment and the ghastly prospect of being returned to the country of origin.
Some illegal migrants can have a moral obligation on the receiving country to accept them, say being a person who was fighting against a tyranny or other type of opression. There are then also the criminals either civil or military who try to infiltrate the receiving country because of the need to stay hidden from authorities.
I met a lovely Sudanese family.....pitchy black and Christian wanting to flee the civil war of the Arab Muslim north slaughtering the southern Christian Negro. This poor family had been in a refugee camp for three years...a squalid and frightening time as criminal behaviour was rampant, increased their family by three and eventually legally emigrated to Australia where they were lovingly patronised by a Lutheran community.
It has also been my experience that if you are middle classed, white and with skills you are more likely to be discriminated against due to national quotas. This is very evident with South Africans and other African nations where there have been sweeping social changes...not necessarily for the better.
I pray to God I will never be faced with the awful decision to leave my home and country and face a future where my language is not of the the country receiving me, and possibly never seeing those whom I have loved again.raying:
It is strictly a legal issue that the Church has no business meddling in. PERIOD! The laws of the US are to be obeyed and if the Church is not in compliance it has over stepped its moral bounds. We have a moral responsibility to obey the laws of the land.
As the church is made up of citizens of America it is a legal affair
As the church is made up of citizens of the Kingdom of God, it is a moral affair.
Immigration in America per se should not be preached from pulpits
Treating immigrants as humans should.
The Church is made up of citizens of a higher kingdom.
OUR heavenly citizenship trumps our earthly citizenship.
And as citizens of the KINGDOM of God, we are obliged to abide by the principles of the Kingdom of God. Those principles does not depend on the nationality of the people we minister too, or whether or not they have the proper paperwork in place before we care for them as humans.
UNLESS the law is immoral. Slavery was immoral, so I would have broken the laws of the south, and would have helped slaves escape if I lived back then...
OUR immigration laws are immoral as they stand now, because they discriminate according to the worth of the person coming into our country.
ALL HUMANS are worthy.
Amen!! I have a very good friend whose husband is the Spanish Pastor at a church in New Mexico...they have led some illegals to Christ, and we have discussed this very matter. They feel the church should worry about souls and not legalities, and I disagree. If we tell them it's ok to break the laws of the U.S. - how can we expect them to obey God's laws?
It can only be immoral to discriminate if the end result is a moral imperative. Since coming into this or any country is not a moral imperative there is not moral offense. They do not have a right to come into this country and it is not immoral to keep them out regardless of the reason.
Are you implying you would have obeyed the laws allowing slavery in the North?
The basis of law and morals is the social contract.